Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[IronDanHamza]

So are we going to ignore Hopkins losses? Losing his first pro fight to a nobody, losing to Jones in his first real title shot, then drawing with Segundo Mercado? We can both play that game.

I've also technically broken down why Toney is better and refuse to acknowledge that and act as if I never said it You pick and choose which points you want to argue and then when I prove you wrong you twist things.

B Hop can't go 30 fights without losing. He Almost always lost when he fought the top guy in his division. Toney had superior hand speed, head movement, and punching power. But you want to ignore all of that. FINE...

Then I referenced the opinions of experienced fighters and trainers including Hopkins HIMSELF and you are still in denial. Toney hasn't been a top fighter for years and yet this poll is still a dead heat. That goes to show you dont know what you're talking about.

Hopkins lost his first pro fight and to Roy Jones. You're actually going to compare that to losing to Tiberi and Thadzi whilst at championship level?

To compare their fights and poor performances, it's not even a contest. Toney struggled and lost at every level consistently. Toney has zero dominant performances over top tier opposition his entire career.

I've agreed that he has better hand speed and power. But that's it. He doesn't even have better head movment.

Proved me wrong? Do you actually think that? You've broken nothing down tehcnically. Hopkins is in a different league to Toney technically.

Referencing other people's opinions brings nothing to the debate but I see you haven't grasped that yet.

The fact you've just said that the poll is even therefore that means "I don't know what I'm talking about" is baffling. So what, NSB polls are the measuring stick now? The poll is even because James Toney is ridiculously overrated. Im surprised it's even that close.

[Johnwoo8686]

Hopkins lost his first pro fight and to Roy Jones. You're actually going to compare that to losing to Tiberi and Thadzi whilst at championship level?

To compare their fights and poor performances, it's not even a contest. Toney struggled and lost at every level consistently. Toney has zero dominant performances over top tier opposition his entire career.

I've agreed that he has better hand speed and power. But that's it. He doesn't even have better head movment.

Proved me wrong? Do you actually think that? You've broken nothing down tehcnically. Hopkins is in a different league to Toney technically.

Referencing other people's opinions brings nothing to the debate but I see you haven't grasped that yet.

The fact you've just said that the poll is even therefore that means "I don't know what I'm talking about" is baffling. So what, NSB polls are the measuring stick now? The poll is even because James Toney is ridiculously overrated. Im surprised it's even that close.

The poll is close and you find yourself surprised because you don't know what you're talking about in this matter. You keep saying he lost to Tiberi. He won! Just because you think it was robbery does not make it a fact. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. James Toney has win over Tiberi, that's a fact. But your OPINION s that he lost. When talking about fight records I'm sticking to facts.

You act as if I'm referencing nobodies. I referenced a trainer who worked with both men, a fighter who fought both men, and one of the fighters himself! But you think your opinion supercedes theirs.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

All I know is toney is the only guy I have ever seen that could not train, be fat as hell, and throw down with the best cruisers and heavys..

Hopkins had to be 100% focused on training to be successful, toney could be 5% and be successful..

Titles- toney got more

Weight classes- toney got more

Wins- toney got the best with nunn and mccallum


Let hopkins be fat with no training and throw down with Peter, Rahman, holyfield, jirov

Toney was winning titles before Michael Jordan was winning titles,, and was still winning titles when shaq and Kobe was winning titles

The only thing hopkins beats toney in is work ethic and professionalism..


Toney used 10% of his potential and still won more titles and beat better fighters that hopkins

[Sugar Adam Ali]

How many fights did hopkins quit or look to get out of..

Allen 1
Dawson 1
Calzaghe


When did toney ever look to the ref for a way out of a fight?

[IronDanHamza]

The poll is close and you find yourself surprised because you don't know what you're talking about in this matter. You keep saying he lost to Tiberi. He won! Just because you think it was robbery does not make it a fact. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. James Toney has win over Tiberi, that's a fact. But your OPINION s that he lost. When talking about fight records I'm sticking to facts.

You act as if I'm referencing nobodies. I referenced a trainer who worked with both men, a fighter who fought both men, and one of the fighters himself! But you think your opinion supercedes theirs.

No I'm suprised it's close because Toney is so overrated on forums that I'd expect him to be much further in the lead.

I don't know what I'm talking about OK mate.

Yeah he "won" if you ignore the fact it was a robbery. But why ignore it? It's one of the biggest robberies of all time it's the eqiuvilent to pretending that Whitaker didn't beat Chavez.

I'm not acting like you're referencing nobodies. However you're acting like other men's words are gospel. Fighters aren't honest. How many times have you seen a fighters say so and so was their best opponent or toughest fight when it's abundantly clear it wasn't? Either way all it is their opinion anyway. It's not a point.

And Hopkins never said Toney is better than him he said he was more talented, you seem to consider that the same thing for whatever reason but it isn't. And that's also debatable.

[IronDanHamza]

How many fights did hopkins quit or look to get out of..

Allen 1
Dawson 1
Calzaghe


When did toney ever look to the ref for a way out of a fight?

Toney checked out of loads and went into survival mode in plenty of fights when he was in his 40's.

And what does this point even mean?

[dan_cov]

I think I'd have to go with B-Hop.
Better technician and remained more consistent throughout his career, obviously has the longevity too.

I think Toney is a great fighter but he tends to get maybe slightly overrated a touch.
I always feel with Toney he gets huge props compared to other great fighters that was in his era. Like they get a bit overshadowed I'm talking fighters like Mike McCallum who for me was every bit as good as Toney.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Toney checked out of loads and went into survival mode in plenty of fights when he was in his 40's.

And what does this point even mean?

Lmao... Not even going to debate with someone that thinks beating Lou del Valle is a solid win and roy jones had a lot of big fights from 95-2000

[IronDanHamza]

Lmao... Not even going to debate with someone that thinks beating Lou del Valle is a solid win and roy jones had a lot of big fights from 95-2000

Won't debate or can't debate?

I don't recall saying Lou Del Valle was a solid win.

Why even bring Roy Jones into the conversation? He's about 10 levels or so above James Toney in every single way.

[IronDanHamza]

I think I'd have to go with B-Hop.
Better technician and remained more consistent throughout his career, obviously has the longevity too.

I think Toney is a great fighter but he tends to get maybe slightly overrated a touch.
I always feel with Toney he gets huge props compared to other great fighters that was in his era. Like they get a bit overshadowed I'm talking fighters like Mike McCallum who for me was every bit as good as Toney.

Mike McCallum is in a different league to James Toney.

In all honesty, the first fight with McCallum flatters Toney. McCallum beat him the second time and if we look at it career wise then it's not even close.

I'm not sure if Toney is better than Montel Griffin if I'm honest.