Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Mike McCallum is in a different league to James Toney.

In all honesty, the first fight with McCallum flatters Toney. McCallum beat him the second time and if we look at it career wise then it's not even close.

I'm not sure if Toney is better than Montel Griffin if I'm honest.

This is why i don't want to debate. You have to be ******ed or trolling to think montel is anywhere near the level, let alone better, than james toney

[LoadedWraps]

Hopkins or Toney - who has, all around, proven to be the best of them during their careers? To me, Hopkins was always clearly better than Toney, but some disagree.

Some people have already said it,

Toney was the more skilled/talented/gifted boxer, but he was irresponsible and undisciplined.

Toney and ODLH are similar in that they are prototype ideal fighters but were idiots and pissed their careers away. Imagine if Toney and ODLH had a B-Hop/Floyd/JMM type dedication to the sport even after "making it". wow.

B-Hop worked hard and was dedicated and got to an elite level and sustained for many years.

It depends on what you are considering when you say/think "better".

To me better = skill and talent, so I have to go with Toney.

That said, if better to you is all about resume, longevity, and consistency, then you have to go with B-Hop. B-Hop has the more impressive career as well.

It's really close either way as B-Hop is a very skilled fighter himself with wizard-like ring IQ, but Toney was just gifted as ever, once in a lifetime talent.

[IronDanHamza]

This is why i don't want to debate. You have to be ******ed or trolling to think montel is anywhere near the level, let alone better, than james toney

How so?

He beat Toney twice.

He troubled Roy Jones, where as Toney got treated like an infant child.

You're telling me Toney's a different level to Griffin? How?

[IronDanHamza]

It's so frustrating to see people say Toney is more skilled than Hopkins.

He's not even in Hopkins league skill wise.

[bojangles1987]

The poll is close and you find yourself surprised because you don't know what you're talking about in this matter. You keep saying he lost to Tiberi. He won! Just because you think it was robbery does not make it a fact. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. James Toney has win over Tiberi, that's a fact. But your OPINION s that he lost. When talking about fight records I'm sticking to facts.

You act as if I'm referencing nobodies. I referenced a trainer who worked with both men, a fighter who fought both men, and one of the fighters himself! But you think your opinion supercedes theirs.

Dude, he lost to Tiberi. Resorting to "officially he won" as "facts" is just cheap. It's like pretending Bradley actually beat Pacquiao or Chavez actually earned a draw with Whitaker. Toney got whipped in that fight.

[bojangles1987]

Having seen some of them for myself now, people really should go watch Toney's draws and split decisions and such. Dude got more gifts than Danny Garcia. And he showed the exact same flaws in each of those fights, so the "he just wasn't prepared or disciplined" excuse really doesn't work. He was always the exact same fighter. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

[Doctor_Tenma]

The poll is close and you find yourself surprised because you don't know what you're talking about in this matter. You keep saying he lost to Tiberi. He won! Just because you think it was robbery does not make it a fact. You need to learn the difference between a fact and an opinion. James Toney has win over Tiberi, that's a fact. But your OPINION s that he lost. When talking about fight records I'm sticking to facts.

You act as if I'm referencing nobodies. I referenced a trainer who worked with both men, a fighter who fought both men, and one of the fighters himself! But you think your opinion supercedes theirs.

Roach worked with Hopkins for the Calzaghe fight, that's nothing close to a prime Bernard Hopkins. I highly recommend you go watch a prime Bernard Hopkins, it's hard to pinpoint when his prime started but I'm of the belief it ended with Joppy, I'm confident enough in saying that because I've gone through his career and after that fight is the point in which he really started to slow and his stamina wasn't the same.

You mentioned the Mercado fight, Hopkins won that fight clearly and then he came back to beat the crap out of Mercado in the rematch.

[Daddy T]

I preferred watching Toney, but Hopkins was better and was far more disciplined. I have little doubt that if they had fought ... whenever ... hopkins would have won.

[TheBoxingXpert]

Man, this could be one of the boxing debates of the century. There really is divided opinions on this matter. Just look at the poll results, lol.

[IronDanHamza]

Roach worked with Hopkins for the Calzaghe fight, that's nothing close to a prime Bernard Hopkins. I highly recommend you go watch a prime Bernard Hopkins, it's hard to pinpoint when his prime started but I'm of the belief it ended with Joppy, I'm confident enough in saying that because I've gone through his career and after that fight is the point in which he really started to slow and his stamina wasn't the same.

You mentioned the Mercado fight, Hopkins won that fight clearly and then he came back to beat the crap out of Mercado in the rematch.

A lot of people posting in this thread haven't seen their careers.

They haven't seen Toney draw with journeyman, edge out hard fought decisions against unranked opponents and clearly lose against unranked opponents.

They haven't seen him get a gift decison against Reggie Johnson in which he made Toney look like an amateur.

They've seen him get absolutely embarrassed by Roy Jones, but they blame that on him being "drained". Ok, so tell me, when wasn't he "drained"?

They've seen him lose twice to Montel Griffin, but they claim those fights were robberies when they absolutely were not.

And you know what else? They completely ignore the above. They either refuse to adknowledge it or have every excuse in the book for it.