Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[therealpugilist]

I'm trying to imagine what jackasses like realpugilist or Nay Sayer would say if Golovkin got his ass kicked by Dominic Wade or Osamanu Adama. They sure as hell wouldn't defend him like they defend Toney, who lost to fighters just as bad, and maybe worse.

just came seem to keep my **** out your mouth, ***....you do realize this thread has nothing to do with GGG...he couldnt carry toney's or hopkins' jock strap

He also fought better opposition than GGG, and actually moved up and won titles from 160-190

they actually won all their titles in the ring, GGG wouldnt know anything about that....or being a legitimate middleweight champion for that matter...moving on

[CatchAndShoot]

Sounds like you need to take your own advice.

You don't have proof that Hopkins was on PEDs and honestly it's pretty ****** that you even mentioned it. Have you ever watched an old Hopkins fight and then a new one? He is a shell of what he was. If you don't think PEDs help at least maintain strength, speed, and power then you are delusional man. Show me some evidence that Hopkins juiced and then we can talk.

Learn about PEDs, before you say ignorant ****.

No ****. Like I said before, PEDs don't turn you into a 20 year old again. Reading comprehension. It allows you to train at a level that will allow you to perform at the highest of your ability at your age. You really need to learn about PEDs, and you really need to stop being so damn naive. You're like a little kid that believes in Santa Clause.

No, B-Hop's my favorite fighter, he could never be on roids! Never! Jack ass.

[Mr.MojoRisin']

No ****. Like I said before, PEDs don't turn you into a 20 year old again. Reading comprehension. It allows you to train at a level that will allow you to perform at the highest of your ability at your age. You really need to learn about PEDs, and you really need to stop being so damn naive. You're like a little kid that believes in Santa Clause.

No, B-Hop's my favorite fighter, he could never be on roids! Never! Jack ass.

I never said that they turn you into a 20 year old so it's your reading comprehension that is in question. PEDs allow you to perform HIGHER than your highest ability. Otherwise they wouldn't be called PERFORMANCE ENHANCING DRUGS. They ENHANCE performance not keep it the same. Any athlete that performs at the elite level has to bring forth nothing less than their highest ability THEN they use PEDs when that highest ability isn't enough. Just because Hopkins was at what is considered an old age in boxing doesn't mean he used PEDs but by your logic Walcott and Moore were on PEDs before they even came out!

Hopkins has always been an advocate of healthy living. The reason most fighters burn out in there late 20s early 30s is because they party, drink, use drugs, etc. Hopkins doesn't do any of that. He always stays in shape and mentally focused. You probably don't understand that though because ydksab.

I don't know why you are so mad but you aren't intimidating anyone keyboard warrior. I asked you to show some proof and all you say is PEDs don't make you a 20 year old.

Seems your the only Jack ass here! Quit embarrassing yourself!

[Johnwoo8686]

Right so Freddie Roach's word is gospel when it suits you then basically?

You're stating facts? You are literally doing nothing but showing me someone else's opinion.

No, it's not gospel when it suits. But we're talking about boxing. I'm not asking Freddie for life advice. Come on man, you're smarter than that. Freddie has more experience than you or I. He's worked with both men when YOU haven't. So don't come on here and act like you are more knowledgeable than he is because you aren't.

And I've listed actual stats such as their fight records in their prime. What do you mean by "you are just stating someone else's opinion?" Can you read? I listed Toney's 44-0 fight record in his fighting prime. He walked into the fight with Jones undefeated while Hopkns did not.

[IronDanHamza]

No, it's not gospel when it suits. But we're talking about boxing. I'm not asking Freddie for life advice. Come on man, you're smarter than that. Freddie has more experience than you or I. He's worked with both men when YOU haven't. So don't come on here and act like you are more knowledgeable than he is because you aren't.

And I've listed actual stats such as their fight records in their prime. What do you mean by "you are just stating someone else's opinion?" Can you read? I listed Toney's 44-0 fight record in his fighting prime. He walked into the fight with Jones undefeated while Hopkns did not.

Yeah "undefeated" if you refuse to adknowledge he clearly lost to Dave Tiberi in which Tiberi was robbed.

[Johnwoo8686]

Yeah "undefeated" if you refuse to adknowledge he clearly lost to Dave Tiberi in which Tiberi was robbed.

That's literally all you have. The name Dave Tiberi

[IronDanHamza]

That's literally all you have. The name Dave Tiberi

No I also have the names Sanderline Williams, Merqui Sosa, Reggie Johnson, Montel Griffin, Drake Thadzi etc etc etc

I have explained in detail why Toney is not near Hopkins level that's both technically and referenced to fights.

All you've done is tell me Freddie Roach and Roy Jones think he's better. Barely even a point.

And I bring up Dave Tiberi because you're talking about Toney's undefeated streak and refusing to adknowledge that that "streak" is bull**** because he was clearly beaten by Tiberi.

[IronDanHamza]

I agree about Toney lacking discipline....
But at the end of the day Toney would beat the **** out of Hopkins....

I don't think Bhop would have beaten Nunn let alone move up and punish Jirov,
stop Holyfield etc...

Do you really think Bhop could take Sam Peters punches like Toney did?
Cos I don't.

"Toney would beat the **** out of Hopkins"

"Toney would whoop Hopkins"

"Toney would destroy Hopkins"

Only in fantasy land does Toney "whoop" and "destroy" top tier opposition. Much less ATG opposition.

[BrometheusBob.]

If I was going only by my perception of their ability/skills, then it's close. But I gotta give the nod to Hopkins because I feel he's proven more. I might be biased since I'm young and saw some of Hopkins' best wins live (most memorably Tito) and had to look back to see video of Toney's best wins.

[Johnwoo8686]

No I also have the names Sanderline Williams, Merqui Sosa, Reggie Johnson, Montel Griffin, Drake Thadzi etc etc etc

I have explained in detail why Toney is not near Hopkins level that's both technically and referenced to fights.

All you've done is tell me Freddie Roach and Roy Jones think he's better. Barely even a point.

And I bring up Dave Tiberi because you're talking about Toney's undefeated streak and refusing to adknowledge that that "streak" is bull**** because he was clearly beaten by Tiberi.

So are we going to ignore Hopkins losses? Losing his first pro fight to a nobody, losing to Jones in his first real title shot, then drawing with Segundo Mercado? We can both play that game.

I've also technically broken down why Toney is better and refuse to acknowledge that and act as if I never said it You pick and choose which points you want to argue and then when I prove you wrong you twist things.

B Hop can't go 30 fights without losing. He Almost always lost when he fought the top guy in his division. Toney had superior hand speed, head movement, and punching power. But you want to ignore all of that. FINE...

Then I referenced the opinions of experienced fighters and trainers including Hopkins HIMSELF and you are still in denial. Toney hasn't been a top fighter for years and yet this poll is still a dead heat. That goes to show you dont know what you're talking about.