Hopkins or Toney - who was better?

[therealpugilist]

Tiberi, Thadzi, Sosa and Williams are way worse than all of them put together. My point is Toney lost/struggled with all of them.

You can have your opinion. He didn't prove it in the ring though.

you saying the same thing over and over isnt gonna change my opinion....styles make fights.

Hopkins is overrated because of his success at an advanced age

sorry bro Hopkins couldnt compete with world class fighters past 175...Toney could.

He didnt prove it in the ring in your eyes, cool, i beg to differ. He has better career wins than Hopkins so in my eyes he proved it

[bojangles1987]

I love when IronDan shows up on NSB to rip apart James Toney.

[IronDanHamza]

you saying the same thing over and over isnt gonna change my opinion....styles make fights.

Hopkins is overrated because of his success at an advanced age

sorry bro Hopkins couldnt compete with world class fighters past 175...Toney could.

He didnt prove it in the ring in your eyes, cool, i beg to differ. He has better career wins than Hopkins so in my eyes he proved it

Hopkins never fought above 175 so is fantasy to say he couldn't compete above there.

Fantasy...That reminds me of someone's career.

Plus, give Hopkins a nice batch of steroids I'm sure he could move up and lose twice to Sam Peter.

He didn't prove it in the ring, fact.

He did noting in the ring to suggest he could even compete with Hopkins let alone beat him.

[-PBP-]

I love when IronDan shows up on NSB to rip apart James Toney.

And you can't really rebut it because it's true. People fall in love with Toney's inside game but forget that his talents haven't produced results on the level of the elite.

[bojangles1987]

And you can't really rebut it because it's true. People fall in love with Toney's inside game but forget that his talents haven't produced results on the level of the elite.

I'm sure guilty of it, and Toney was just a bit before my time, so I didn't see all the highs and lows of his career. I just saw the highs and heard the talk. I also saw his success at HW and thought that talk must be right for him to compete there so old and past his best weight.

It's only over time that I've come to learn about Toney's career as a whole.

[bojangles1987]

Hopkins never fought above 175 so is fantasy to say he couldn't compete above there.

Fantasy...That reminds me of someone's career.

Plus, give Hopkins a nice batch of steroids I'm sure he could move up and lose twice to Sam Peter.

He didn't prove it in the ring, fact.

He did noting in the ring to suggest he could even compete with Hopkins let alone beat him.

And adding on to you discussing Toney's problems with jabs, he made me and a lot of other boxing fans think Sam Peter had a a jab.

[IronDanHamza]

And you can't really rebut it because it's true. People fall in love with Toney's inside game but forget that his talents haven't produced results on the level of the elite.

Toney IMO is by far the most overrated fighter of all time when it comes to message boards. He has this weird obsessive fanbase that seems to think "if he was in shape" he'd beat anyone yet base that off nothing considering he was literally never ever in shape according to them. That's why he looked like **** so many times...

He wasn't in shape.

It's not because he's a limited fighter.

It's not because his footwork is below average.

It's not because he can't cut off a ring.

It's not because he can't avoid a good jab.

It's not because he doesn't have a good ring IQ.

It's not because he can't make adjustments.

It's not because he's never blocked a right hook to the body in his life.

No, nothing to do with the above.

It's because he wasn't in shape.

[b00g13man]

I love when IronDan shows up on NSB to rip apart James Toney.

It's a great sight indeed. I'm a Toney fan, but I can't argue with his logic.

[b00g13man]

Toney IMO is by far the most overrated fighter of all time when it comes to message boards. He has this weird obsessive fanbase that seems to think "if he was in shape" he'd beat anyone yet base that off nothing considering he was literally never ever in shape according to them. That's why he looked like **** so many times...

He wasn't in shape.

It's not because he's a limited fighter.

It's not because his footwork is below average.

It's not because he can't cut off a ring.

It's not because he can't avoid a good jab.

It's not because he doesn't have a good ring IQ.

It's not because he can't make adjustments.

It's not because he's never blocked a right hook to the body in his life.

No, nothing to do with the above.

It's because he wasn't in shape.

The "out of shape" excuse is a really lazy one imo. I refuse to buy into it for anyone.

[-PBP-]

Toney IMO is by far the most overrated fighter of all time when it comes to message boards. He has this weird obsessive fanbase that seems to think "if he was in shape" he'd beat anyone yet base that off nothing considering he was literally never ever in shape according to them. That's why he looked like **** so many times...

He wasn't in shape.

It's not because he's a limited fighter.

It's not because his footwork is below average.

It's not because he can't cut off a ring.

It's not because he can't avoid a good jab.

It's not because he doesn't have a good ring IQ.

It's not because he can't make adjustments.

It's not because he's never blocked a right hook to the body in his life.

No, nothing to do with the above.

It's because he wasn't in shape.

He's cute and creative in the pocket and it's fun to watch. But they ignore every other aspect of his skills and his career.

Reminds me of Zab Judah and his infamous uppercut and his lack of motivation. He had a pretty counter left uppercut but outside of that he was an average fighter and choked in his biggest fights. But with Zab it was always "if he lands the uppercut" or "if he can not be a mental midget."

Khan's handspeed, Judah's uppercut and Toney's inside game.