Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

[SterlingStained]

Pac started at 13, and even his mom said he liked boxing as a kid. He went "pro" at age of 15. His first fights even looked like he trained at boxing.

Pac fans have been defeated in the last year by justifying that if Pac and Floyd used Ariza, as if they both had each other in the same amount time, then both should be "forgiven."

you dont have single shred of evidence that pacuqiao used peds.

floyd on the other hand used a known ped masking IV maneuver popularized by lance armstrong according the World Anti Doping Agency.

carry on flom.

[Lester Tutor]

you dont have single shred of evidence that pacuqiao used peds.

floyd on the other hand used a known ped masking IV maneuver popularized by lance armstrong according the World Anti Doping Agency.

carry on flom.

lol. you can casually pretend you don't know who Conte is..

[Hype job]

Mexicans have plenty of prospects, champions and olympians. No one is talking about Mexico here, so im not sure why you bring up a successful boxing country amidst this discussion. Apples - Oranges. Phillipines rarely produce quality - with or without proper training.

Do be so gullible my friend. Wake up! Slap yourself if you need to. You are living in the steroid age. These things just dont magically happen to people.

A fighter from Malta or Hungary (not know for dominating boxing much like PI) climbing to the top would be su****ious as ****. Im beginning to believe you may share nationalities because its clear as day to me.

This is some ******ed ass logic right here.

[travestyny]

Well he certainly tried to take PED's for the Mayweather fight. If you know anything about Toradol, you'd have to concede. Who claims to be 100% going into the fight, but wants to load up on Toradol? And why Toradol specifically?

I wonder how long he has been abusing it.

[sunny31]

Mexicans have plenty of prospects, champions and olympians. No one is talking about Mexico here, so im not sure why you bring up a successful boxing country amidst this discussion. Apples - Oranges. Phillipines rarely produce quality - with or without proper training.

Do be so gullible my friend. Wake up! Slap yourself if you need to. You are living in the steroid age. These things just dont magically happen to people.

A fighter from Malta or Hungary (not know for dominating boxing much like PI) climbing to the top would be su****ious as ****. Im beginning to believe you may share nationalities because its clear as day to me.

No its an ignorant argument so I won't agree with you, plus your just wrong.

I did a little research on this just to show you why you are wrong as well, Mexico breed professional fighters, they turn pro early and have a great heritage at doing so, yes you are right they are a successful boxing country when it comes to the professional game. In the Philippines it is similar in the sense that they tend to produce more professionals than amateurs, just not anywhere near as successful at it, the fighters in both countries tend to come from poor backgrounds, so the good one's with ability go pro early, this is pretty normal. Neither country has a successful amateur programme.

Mexico has 12 olympic medals to date in total, the Philippines have 5. Your ignorance is highlighted further in your last paragraph, Hungary is 6th on the all time list with 20 medals including 12 gold medals. So a fighter going to the top of the professional ranks from their would be unique, but NOT su****ious at all. In fact if you play the odds its surprising they haven't yet produced one.

That isn't even the biggest bombshell - the Philippines have produced 39 world champions in their history. That is a serious amount for a country who 'rarely produce quality'. I think you need to do more research next time before you talk with such ignorance, your first post wasn't even that bad but the fact that you still argued on after that without a facts based argument is pretty dumb overall.

I have made this thread and openly admitted that I think Pacquiao was on PED's but to say that he couldn't achieve certain things or special things because of what country he is from is idiotic. Especially when you consider the above points and the fact that it isn't such a one off. There are plenty of examples of boxers and sports stars from countries with no heritage in that given sport, that list is long and notorious.

To answer yet another idiotic presumptuous comment, no I am not from the Philippines, I am from the UK. Just to emphasis my point further, in my humble opinion we currently have the best driver in Formula 1 and one of the best of all time. He is the first black driver in F1 history, he has an english mother and his father is from Grenada, the population of Grenada is 100,000 people, yet this guy with half of that blood pumping through his veins has gone on to become one of the greatest drivers of all time. I rest my case.

[sunny31]

This is some ******ed ass logic right here.

Jesus Im glad someone else sees it too.

[sunny31]

Honestly i think he clearly was on something, but he is clearly not the only one. I think there is a lot of **** that goes on behind the scenes with rich people... it is what it is

Reading all this stuff that was going on behind the scenes in cycling and especially with Lance Armstrong was shocking to me, I mean I wasn't ignorant towards the subject before, but I would say I was ignorant towards the level of corruption and how easily it was attained. When you have giant sponsors involved and lots of powerful people, it changes things. Especially if those people are motivated to keep the sports reputation in tact above all else.

[Divine Hammer]

floyd more guilty and su****ious of being a drug cheat. floyd has 3 faield tests swept under the rug by usada, he has a very close family friend who owns TRT clinics, caught using IV therapy to mask illegal substances in his blood, etc. etc.

[sunny31]

It wasn't his power, it was his speed that knocked down Shane Mosley. When a fighter doen't see the punch it affects him much more stronger. And the same were knockdowns with Cotto and Hatton. You can't prepare to take a punch that you don't see, simple as that.

I don't know man, obviously you are a fan. I use to think like you, but Shane Mosley got hit with bombs all the way through his career by plenty of punches he didn't see coming from monster punchers. Forrest barely got him off his feet and he hit with some of the most hellacious punches you can hit anyone with. Oscar also, Canelo, Cotto. These guys have speed and power.

Pacquiao is su****ious across the board to me.

[ADP02]

Yes this is what became apparent in Armstrong book, doping became almost a skill set. It became an attribute if you were highly organised, to pretty much quote the book, Lance Armstrong said they were going to be the best athletes, the best strategists, the best cyclist, and the best dopers.

Being highly organised with the doping in that world was as important as any kind of training that these guys were doing. That and as you say a lot of power. Lance Armstrong had at least 2 failed tests(that are known about), which tested positive for EPO that were covered up by the UCI. He was just worth too much money to take down for these people. Its pretty scary stuff. There are fighters who could easily hold that position in boxing.

Not that hard to think of someone in boxing who could easily pull it off with help from organizations similar to those in cycling: