Let's be honest here....Manny took human growth hormone right?...Reasonable debate.

[sunny31]

If his country was known for producing this type of talent I wouldnt be as su****ious, but look across the board now. None at the top beside Donaire who himself was a hypejob riding the coat tails of 48's success. The same in the early 00's. Same as the 90's. Same as the 80's. Same as the 70's. None of his countrymen at the top. And certainly none over 126 lbs.

I dont believe he is a special athlete. IMO without PEDs we wouldnt be having these conversations about #48.

I personally don't agree with that as a legit reason to put doubt on him. We have seen anomalies in every sport from all parts of the world in terms of producing one off talent's or a good sportsman, given the same advantages and a level playing field. Are their countries or a certain blood line which are more likely to produce and have a tendency to produce in greater numbers in certain fields/sports? Absolutely yes. But to doubt Pacquiao because of where he is from is not a coherent argument in my opinion. Sorry.

[FrankieClutch]

What did he test positive for?

I guess its all relative right. That is what I took from the cycling world, if you are good before you dope than if you dope well you will follow a relative trajectory in comparison to others.

Whereas maybe that guy needed to dope to become good enough to be a solid line drive hitter, or good enough to be a pro. I am sorry I don't follow baseball anymore so I am just trying to apply common sense.

He tested positive for the anabolic steroids testosterone and clostebol. But to your point, yeah, people are going to dope for different reasons which makes my stance even more so of "who the hell knows". Until there is a positive test, I don't like to speculate

[Butt stuff]

Told ya....

uhmagerd, is sunny31 your alt?

[sunny31]

groundbreaking, original thread


did you think this one up all by yourself?

Well considering there is 2 posts very similar to yours already in here I could argue that it is you that is unoriginal. Besides this hasn't been a topic thread for a long time, and I actually thought we might get sense now that people have had a chance to calm down. I find the whole piece around PED's interesting.

[sunny31]

uhmagerd, is sunny31 your alt?

I will give you the chuck if there are anymore accusations. I have been on NSB since you were playing in your mum's womb so either stay on topic or get out, will it by force or by choice?

[sunny31]

He tested positive for the anabolic steroids testosterone and clostebol. But to your point, yeah, people are going to dope for different reasons which makes my stance even more so of "who the hell knows". Until there is a positive test, I don't like to speculate

Yeah I get it, although as the positive tests stack up and so more examples to refer to, there are some cases where it starts to stick out because of what you have learned.

[sunny31]

Im disappointed..it took 15 posts for Floyd to be mentioned...ya'll slipping

Im curious as to where you stand on this nowadays.

[Elotero]

I personally don't agree with that as a legit reason to put doubt on him. We have seen anomalies in every sport from all parts of the world in terms of producing one off talent's or a good sportsman, given the same advantages and a level playing field. Are their countries or a certain blood line which are more likely to produce and have a tendency to produce in greater numbers in certain fields/sports? Absolutely yes. But to doubt Pacquiao because of where he is from is not a coherent argument in my opinion. Sorry.

Not coherent? No olympians since 1992 (Bronze. Nothing higher than a Bronze in boxing.). No amateur standouts.

The best of the last few generation s have ALL had standout amateur careers AND olympic pedigree. FMJ, Roy Jones, Pernell whitaker, Sugar Ray, Oscar, Andre Ward, Holyfiled.. there arent too many without that pedigree.

Yet somehow im supposed to suspend belief that a fighter without those amateur credentials, whose country doesnt produce top talent, who was KOd cold twice by journeymen early in his career, somehow began peaking in his late 20's/early 30's to become one of the best p4p WITHOUT PEDS?? This isnt ****ing sci-fi. You can believe what you want, this is the smoking gun for me. Ive been watching boxing far too long to cosign such naivety.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

Well considering there is 2 posts very similar to yours already in here I could argue that it is you that is unoriginal. Besides this hasn't been a topic thread for a long time, and I actually thought we might get sense now that people have had a chance to calm down. I find the whole piece around PED's interesting.

after reading your unoriginal topic, you think im gonna read the unoriginal responses?

[Shpacman]

There have been times when large fighters with serious punching power were not able to knock down Shane Mosley, but Pacquiao did, and seemed to shake him a few times after that as well.

It wasn't his power, it was his speed that knocked down Shane Mosley. When a fighter doen't see the punch it affects him much more stronger. And the same were knockdowns with Cotto and Hatton. You can't prepare to take a punch that you don't see, simple as that.