Comments Thread For: Peter Nelson Named Executive Vice President, HBO Sports

[IMDAZED]

I think the answer is simple. Did the event make or lose money. If the event lost money, which it appears it did because most events are based on the numbers that were released from that fund, then that proves Lara's valued was inflated. There is a long term plan involved but in simplest terms if you're paying more for a product than it brings in, it's overvalued.

If you apply that across the board you see that this isn't exclusive to Haymon, in spite of OnePunch's revelation that Haymon is brilliant for doing this. Which is exactly why I'm asking him what market research has he done to claim this. Is it just Al? Obviously not.

[OnePunch]

Value is determined by the final contract agreement, not by the pre sale sticker because boxing matches have no pre sale sticker. The Lara fight had no $10,000 market retail price.

I get your point-if their was a bidding war bidding may not get up to $1 mil for a Lara fight. Then again, you could have a situation like the Povetkin/Wlad fight where the Russians bid a very high sum just to stage the fight in the USSR.

HBO can decide it doesn't want to pay a certain amount but they do not set the value either.

Its like an NBA deal-take Jeremy Lin. He was never really a $10 mil per year player, but his contract was back loaded in such a way that made him one so the other team couldn't match it. It wasn't so much his value but how much it hurt another team from having him.

Relative to boxing-Tim Bradley wasn't worth $6 mil but Arum desperately needed a good opponent for Manny so he gave him a deal but front loaded the deal to make sure Tim didn't get away from him.

There are almost always hidden reasons that drive a contract up or down. SO while again I understand your point its hard to use the tyerm "over inflated" when there is no pre set market retail price.

valid analysis. I do see a key difference though......

The difference is that Haymon ALREADY has these guys under contract. He wasnt trying to "attract" Lara. He already had him. And he certainly was under no threat to lose him. So why pay $1 million for a showcase fight he could have gotten for $350k? Remember, Haymon contracts have no minimum purses, and no minimum # of fights, so where was the pressure to pay $1 million bucks?

[The Big Dunn]

I think the answer is simple. Did the event make or lose money. If the event lost money, which it appears it did because most events are based on the numbers that were released from that fund, then that proves Lara's valued was inflated. There is a long term plan involved but in simplest terms if you're paying more for a product than it brings in, it's overvalued.

Its not so cut and dry. As a single event it may lose money, but it also might increase profits long term.

Its like Kovalev. The fight with Mohammedi lost money. But it was part of a 3 fight deal that not only was profitable overall but kept PBC from broadcasting Stevenson/Kov and HBO getting no money from that after investing a lot in Kov and Stevenson.

Its like a bet in poker. Most times you are trying to win but sometimes you just want to see what the other guy has so you can win the bigger pot later.

[deanrw]

Im with you!!

I honestly didn't even know who Nelson was....kinda still don't

Me neither. All that stuff is foreign to me. All I see here is all these nameless management shuffles, and less fights LOL

[The Big Dunn]

valid analysis. I do see a key difference though......

The difference is that Haymon ALREADY has these guys under contract. He wasnt trying to "attract" Lara. He already had him. And he certainly was under no threat to lose him. So why pay $1 million for a showcase fight he could have gotten for $350k? Remember, Haymon contracts have no minimum purses, and no minimum # of fights, so where was the pressure to pay $1 million bucks?

It's not necessarily pressure.

By paying him $1 mil he keeps Lara happy and attracts other fighters who see a guy making more than think he should. He also, as you sated earlier, makes more for himself because he gets a cut of salary/purse.

Its no different than HBO. Look at Andre Ward. ALmost everyone thinks his value is similar to Lara's but no one is accusing HBO of over paying him for the deal. HBO doesn't mind "over paying" for the tune up because a big win inflates Ward's value relative to the KOv fight.

It makes him look more dangerous to Kov, which in turn should increase PPV sales, which will offset what was "lost" during the tune up.

So Lara V Delvin may not sell enough seats to make a profit if Lara gets $1 mil, but it does help the company profit in other ways and, in preventing fights on another network, hurts the competition.

[El-blanco]

If you apply that across the board you see that this isn't exclusive to Haymon, in spite of OnePunch's revelation that Haymon is brilliant for doing this. Which is exactly why I'm asking him what market research has he done to claim this. Is it just Al? Obviously not.

Boxing is a demented business and most guys are overpaid. What purpose that serves is their accountant's job. I was just speaking generally that despite what arum or haymon might consider that value to be, the real value is what the public says it is through tickets sales/viewership. And I would say based On that, most purses are overvalued.

Its not so cut and dry. As a single event it may lose money, but it also might increase profits long term.

Its like Kovalev. The fight with Mohammedi lost money. But it was part of a 3 fight deal that not only was profitable overall but kept PBC from broadcasting Stevenson/Kov and HBO get none of that.

Its like a bet in poker. Most times you are trying to win but sometimes you just want to see what the other guy has so you can win the bigger pot later.

That's something that will not be proven until the end. Up until this point, their perceived value isn't anywhere close to the their true value, the market value.

[OnePunch]

It's not necessarily pressure.

By paying him $1 mil he keeps Lara happy and attracts other fighters who see a guy making more than think he should. He also, as you sated earlier, makes more for himself because he gets a cut of salary/purse.

Its no different than HBO. Look at Andre Ward. ALmost everyone thinks his value is similar to Lara's but no one is accusing HBO of over paying him for the deal. HBO doesn't mind "over paying" for the tune up because a big win inflates Ward's value relative to the KOv fight.

It makes him look more dangerous to Kov, which in turn should increase PPV sales, which will offset what was "lost" during the tune up.

So Lara V Delvin may not sell enough seats to make a profit if Lara gets $1 mil, but it does help the company profit in other ways and, in preventing fights on another network, hurts the competition.

all of which reinforces my initial statement that PBC purses are over-inflated. (for a myriad of reasons)

Since you have Haymon in your avi, maybe if YOU said it instead of me, your boy IMDAZED wouldnt feel so threatened by it.......lol

[IMDAZED]

Boxing is a demented business and most guys are overpaid. What purpose that serves is their accountant's job. I was just speaking generally that despite what arum or haymon might consider that value to be, the real value is what the public says it is through tickets sales/viewership. And I would say based On that, most purses are overvalued.

Yeah it's my opinion they're overvalued across the board. Not specific to one promoter or adviser.

[bigdunny1]

I think the answer is simple. Did the event make or lose money. If the event lost money, which it appears it did because most events are based on the numbers that were released from that fund, then that proves Lara's valued was inflated. There is a long term plan involved but in simplest terms if you're paying more for a product than it brings in, it's overvalued.

I don't know why fools are even debating this. Not only has other promoters and networks told you that the purses haymon fighters making on PBC are inflated but Haymon told you this himself. Evident by the fact that the first half of the year compared to the second half of the year on PBC. You are seeing PBC fights purses where now fighters are taking paycuts like Lara or are too expensive to even be on PBC and are sent back to Showtime instead. Why? Because these costs can't sustain themselves so now instead of NBC fights with Haymon A list fighters making huge purses for mismatches. Now you seeing Haymon B and C class fighters on NBC making far less. Same with ESPN, Spike ect. The names that headlined these shows early in the year are not the same caliber as the names headlining the shows now. You saw Lara who made 1mil his previous PBC fight make considerably less his last fight despite it being on ESPN primetime.

So even Haymon with his actions admits he was overpaying his fighters and that's why the last few PBC cards and the ones he has scheduled to end the year have a lower quality of talent on them and fighters fighting for less then they fought early in the year on PBC. So far none of these PBC cards are making money, none are even breaking even. They have all lost money and the second half of the year you see PBC slashing the production costs of these fights hell they are not even spending the same level of promotion money on these cards. It's clear for anyone with a brain PBC knows the ratings are bad and this is a domino effect with them saying we can't keep losing this much money every time out. They are trying to limit their losses. That action alone should kill any debate as to whether Haymon was inflating the purses of his fighters above the market value.

[IMDAZED]

all of which reinforces my initial statement that PBC purses are over-inflated. (for a myriad of reasons)

Since you have Haymon in your avi, maybe if YOU said it instead of me, your boy IMDAZED wouldnt feel so threatened by it.......lol

Boy, stop posting my name to other people just because you have no response to my own posts. Second time you've done that. You been exposed. "Greater ROI"...Lord have mercy. You know better than to pretend you know what you're talking about with me. One yaself, sucker