Comments Thread For: Peter Nelson Named Executive Vice President, HBO Sports

[The Big Dunn]

Boxing is a demented business and most guys are overpaid. What purpose that serves is their accountant's job. I was just speaking generally that despite what arum or haymon might consider that value to be, the real value is what the public says it is through tickets sales/viewership. And I would say based On that, most purses are overvalued.


That's something that will not be proven until the end. Up until this point, their perceived value isn't anywhere close to the their true value, the market value.

But the market value hasn't been established and can't be until the contract is negotiated.

How can you know before a venue is chosen? If the fight is in Vegas, NYC, Texas, LA etc there are all different market values.

It's just not as cut and dry as One Punch was making it seem. Like Lara isn't a $250k fighter like a car is priced at $10k.

[Fetta]

Im just happy i get to see more matches and fighters i didn't even know existed cause they didn't get the limited network resource push.

Im happy to be a boxing fan

[OnePunch]

But the market value hasn't been established and can't be until the contract is negotiated.

How can you know before a venue is chosen? If the fight is in Vegas, NYC, Texas, LA etc there are all different market values.

It's just not as cut and dry as One Punch was making it seem. Like Lara isn't a $250k fighter like a car is priced at $10k.

Agreed.

However one thing cannot be disputed. Outside of PBC, Lara (as the A-side) doesnt sniff anywhere NEAR $1 million bucks, regardless of venue.

[The Big Dunn]

all of which reinforces my initial statement that PBC purses are over-inflated. (for a myriad of reasons)

Since you have Haymon in your avi, maybe if YOU said it instead of me, your boy IMDAZED wouldnt feel so threatened by it.......lol

Naw man, you never established a value point of reference. You repeated an opinion that is popular, especially among those that supported HBO banning Al Haymon.

That's why I used Ward. What about Kov? Is he "over inflated"? He makes much more than Lara and doesn't seem to be able to sell out arenas either.

If anything, since promoters get paid from the gate revenue, they ate "deflating" the market value to increase their profits.

[El-blanco]

But the market value hasn't been established and can't be until the contract is negotiated.

How can you know before a venue is chosen? If the fight is in Vegas, NYC, Texas, LA etc there are all different market values.

It's just not as cut and dry as One Punch was making it seem. Like Lara isn't a $250k fighter like a car is priced at $10k.

The market value has already been established in the 100's of fights prior to the one that is being negotiated. The people have spoken and it says fighter X, or a similar fighter, fighting in venue Y, will bring in XYZ of revenue. That's what sets values. Would you say the value of a house, in a neighbourhood full of similar houses worth 500k, is worth 1 million just because the owner perceives its value to be such? Just because arum or haymon perceive a fighters worth to be a million bucks, doesn't mean it actually is, regardless of whether that was negotiated. That's just what they perceive that value to be, for what reason, I don't know. But clearly the market believes otherwise which is why events everywhere are losing money. That indicates its overvalued.

[BennyBlanco]

Hershman wasn't pushed out. HBO had a great year under him. My guess is he is bouncing to do something else something bigger and his stock was at a alltime high so he chose to leave. Taffert left because once Hershman was announced he wanted to be promoted up to take his job. Once he found out he was being passed over AGAIN (he wanted Herschman's job the last time there was an opening) he knew it wasn't in the cards and HBO would never promote him so he left.

Hershman's contract expires at the end of 2015 and HBO did not offer him a new one. His exit was not voluntary.

[OnePunch]

Naw man, you never established a value point of reference. You repeated an opinion that is popular, especially among those that supported HBO banning Al Haymon.

That's why I used Ward. What about Kov? Is he "over inflated"? He makes much more than Lara and doesn't seem to be able to sell out arenas either.

If anything, since promoters get paid from the gate revenue, they ate "deflating" the market value to increase their profits.

Personally I believe Ward is overpaid, but as the purchaser, HBO found a price point they can live with, and obviously feel it is a value to their subscribers. And I sincerely doubt Ward is kicking them back 15% on the back end like PBC guys are, so it would seem that HBO does see value in Ward, whether or not I agree with them.

The difference there is that Ward is being "overpaid" by HBO, a content purchaser, not by their promoter/manager. I could conceivably think that perhaps as a new entity, Roc used Ward as a loss-leader to establish their credibility, but I would bet my house that Kathy Duva is not losing 10 cents on her HBO deal with Kov. So in that sense its different, as Roc/Duva found a willing buyer (HBO) for their content, whereas PBC is actually paying networks for airtime, and has not found a willing buyer as of yet.

[The Big Dunn]

The market value has already been established in the 100's of fights prior to the one that is being negotiated. The people have spoken and it says fighter X, or a similar fighter, fighting in venue Y, will bring in XYZ of revenue. That's what sets values. Would you say the value of a house, in a neighbourhood full of similar houses worth 500k, is worth 1 million just because the owner perceives its value to be such? Just because arum or haymon perceive a fighters worth to be a million bucks, doesn't mean it actually is, regardless of whether that was negotiated. That's just what they perceive that value to be, for what reason, I don't know. But clearly the market believes otherwise which is why events everywhere are losing money. That indicates its overvalued.

The value isn't based on what the owner believes but what he negotiates to sell it for. He can ask for anything, what he gets is the value.

But I get your point-live gate revenue is down significantly and iis not covering the purses for fighters.

[bigdunny1]

Naw man, you never established a value point of reference. You repeated an opinion that is popular, especially among those that supported HBO banning Al Haymon.

That's why I used Ward. What about Kov? Is he "over inflated"? He makes much more than Lara and doesn't seem to be able to sell out arenas either.

If anything, since promoters get paid from the gate revenue, they ate "deflating" the market value to increase their profits.

Comparing Kovalev to Lara is foolish look at Kovalev's HBO ratings. He's getting about 1mil or so over every time out in viewers. He is now one of the bigger stars on HBO. Lara just fought on ESPN primetime and flopped with 480K viewers. ON ESPN with them airing a boxing documentary on Tyson/Holyfield as free promo to steer viewers to watch PBC afterwards. And still nobody watched. ESPN is in far more homes then HBO and still he did a fraction of the viewership Kovalev does. His fight before that did 440k viewers on SpikeTV. So his last 2 fights combined did less viewers then Kovalev does. But he got 1mil for the Rodriguez fight lol

And that's not counting the fact that PBC can't sell any tickets to watch him fight. For the Rodriguez fight multiple sources reported they had to GIVE AWAY free tickets and still only had a half empty arena come out for that fight. There is no market where 1mil for Lara makes sense. Nobody wants to watch him fight. PBC bid against themselves because nobody wants to air Lara fights and if they do not anywhere near at that fight purse.

[The Big Dunn]

Personally I believe Ward is overpaid, but as the purchaser, HBO found a price point they can live with, and obviously feel it is a value to their subscribers. And I sincerely doubt Ward is kicking them back 15% on the back end like PBC guys are, so it would seem that HBO does see value in Ward, whether or not I agree with them.

The difference there is that Ward is being "overpaid" by HBO, a content purchaser, not by their promoter/manager. I could conceivably think that perhaps as a new entity, Roc used Ward as a loss-leader to establish their credibility, but I would bet my house that Kathy Duva is not losing 10 cents on her HBO deal with Kov. So in that sense its different, as Roc/Duva found a willing buyer (HBO) for their content, whereas PBC is actually paying networks for airtime, and has not found a willing buyer as of yet.

ward has an HBO deal, so to say they are not his promoter/manager of record but surely function in that way to a degree since he is signed to them. Roc is also paying Ward directly, as they did cotto, hoping to get the money back

You do get it. Haymon is doing with Lara, huge up front payment to help secure a TV deal and bigger money later.