Prime Tyson vs Prime Frazier

[Elroy1]

The NOI and the black panthers are not the same. You know this right?

You are lying again Elroy, why are you doing this? Why do you have to make up lies to support your arguments?

I didn't connect them did I?

And what lies? I honestly believed Ali beat his women when I wrote it, or else I wouldn't have. When I discovered it wasn't substantiated, I admitted it and basically apologised. You can't ask for much more honesty than that, I think I should be as accountable for my posts as I expect you and your OTNB friends to be.

So no I haven't made up any lies.

[Elroy1]

I think you're jealous that people think of Ali as the greatest and not Wladimir Klitschko.

I don't know which world you live in, but it's close to fantasy land.

I have not mentioned Klitschko at all in this thread.

This is a Tyson thread remember?

But since you mentioned that, here are 5 points of wisdom you should know..

1/ Klitschko is European wide more popular than Ali (just for interests sake)

2/ Mike Tyson is worldwide the most popular boxer of all time

3/ Worldwide everybody knows who Tyson and Klitschko are with clarity but

4/ Only Amercians know who Ali is intimately, other nations people below the age of 50 know of him as a great boxer but know nothing about him really.

5/ I would support ANY boxer vs ANY boxer I thought would beat them with reason. The fact that Klitschko could beat almost any boxer and Ali would struggle to beat really any good boxer post 80's is the reason we often find ourselves in that predicament.

Now let's forget about the Ukranian giant for now. He isn't relevant to the discussion.

If you would prefer to drop the whole Ali racist etc stuff, we can mutually agree to dispense with it and keep it to "in-ring" stuff, as I'd prefer.

[LacedUp]

I didn't connect them did I?

And what lies? I honestly believed Ali beat his women when I wrote it, or else I wouldn't have. When I discovered it wasn't substantiated, I admitted it and basically apologised. You can't ask for much more honesty than that, I think I should be as accountable for my posts as I expect you and your OTNB friends to be.

So no I haven't made up any lies.

Yes you did, you said NOI or "the black panthers" - the two have nothing to do with each other other.

Well that was one lie you tried to pass off as fact. If I hadn't called you out on it, you wouldn't have agreed to let it go. I'm seeing a pattern with you sometimes, and that is you let some statements fly that you want to use to discredit certain fighters, you did it with Lewis and you do it with Ali. Luckily, i know enough to call you out on it.

You lie regarding Ali telling his opponents in clinches that his brothers are coming after him. Please provide us with a source.

How can the most racist man on earth have multiple white people with him all the time? Are you hearing yourself? Elijah Muhammad preached that the white man was a devil for what they did to blacks for the past 500 years - there are elements of truth in what he preached. Then there was some stuff about a spaceship which was extremely strange.

After Elijah, his son Wallace came in and preached that it was the action of the specific person that counted, not the colour of people's skin. Malcom X had also enlightened certain ******s in the NOI that after his trip to Mecca, he'd learned that Islam was for all colours, not just black and brown. It was essentially the same route Wallace Muhammad chose to go down.

Saying that Muhammad Ali kidnapped Sonny Liston's kid and wife is 1. ludicrous. and 2. it's never been backed up by more than 1 book 50 years after it happened. Suspecious? Yes.

[LacedUp]

I have not mentioned Klitschko at all in this thread.

This is a Tyson thread remember?

But since you mentioned that, here are 5 points of wisdom you should know..

1/ Klitschko is European wide more popular than Ali (just for interests sake)

2/ Mike Tyson is worldwide the most popular boxer of all time

3/ Worldwide everybody knows who Tyson and Klitschko are with clarity but

4/ Only Amercians know who Ali is intimately, other nations people below the age of 50 know of him as a great boxer but know nothing about him really.

5/ I would support ANY boxer vs ANY boxer I thought would beat them with reason. The fact that Klitschko could beat almost any boxer and Ali would struggle to beat really any good boxer post 80's is the reason we often find ourselves in that predicament.

Now let's forget about the Ukranian giant for now. He isn't relevant to the discussion.

If you would prefer to drop the whole Ali racist etc stuff, we can mutually agree to dispense with it and keep it to "in-ring" stuff, as I'd prefer.

You don't honestly believe that.

I only discussed in this thread because you were saying all sorts of lies about Ali in a thread about Tyson and Frazier.

[Elroy1]

NOI OR the Black Panthers... Come on, a misreading of grammar. ether or.

[LacedUp]

NOI OR the Black Panthers... Come on, a misreading of grammar. ether or.

It's not misreading when you put "" up. Then you are grammatically referring to an AKA.

[Elroy1]

You don't honestly believe that.

I only discussed in this thread because you were saying all sorts of lies about Ali in a thread about Tyson and Frazier.

I struggle to find any points in that post you could possibly find unbelievable??

Again, I never lied at all. I made mistake once for which I refuted. I stand by the rest, whether you believe it or not. If you can convince me otherwise or show where I have made a rash or inaccurate judgement, your free to enlighten me some more.

I already learned one thing today. That Muhammad didn't bash his missus

[Elroy1]

It's not misreading when you put "" up. Then you are grammatically referring to an AKA.

Yes my bad there, I am not an English teacher.

I was merely trying to emphasise the term for you to highlight how bad they were

[LacedUp]

I struggle to find any points in that post you could possibly find unbelievable??

Again, I never lied at all. I made mistake once for which I refuted. I stand by the rest, whether you believe it or not. If you can convince me otherwise or show where I have made a rash or inaccurate judgement, your free to enlighten me some more.

I already learned one thing today. That Muhammad didn't bash his missus

You would, because you are the one making it up.

Yes you did lie. You said it was a well known fact that Muhammad Ali was a wife beater. And that's a straight up lie. You didn't even know about it, you just hoped no one would pick you up on it. It really shows the lengths you will go through to discredit Muhammad Ali.

Klitschko is not European wide more popular or well known than Muhammad Ali, please. I've lived all over Europe, and he's not even a household name in many countries. But you know who is? Muhammad Ali.

Yes my bad there, I am not an English teacher.

I was merely trying to emphasise the term for you to highlight how bad they were

They are nowhere near the same in belief or violence level. At all.

[Elroy1]

Yes you did, you said NOI or "the black panthers" - the two have nothing to do with each other other.

Well that was one lie you tried to pass off as fact. If I hadn't called you out on it, you wouldn't have agreed to let it go. I'm seeing a pattern with you sometimes, and that is you let some statements fly that you want to use to discredit certain fighters, you did it with Lewis and you do it with Ali. Luckily, i know enough to call you out on it.

You lie regarding Ali telling his opponents in clinches that his brothers are coming after him. Please provide us with a source.

How can the most racist man on earth have multiple white people with him all the time? Are you hearing yourself? Elijah Muhammad preached that the white man was a devil for what they did to blacks for the past 500 years - there are elements of truth in what he preached. Then there was some stuff about a spaceship which was extremely strange.

After Elijah, his son Wallace came in and preached that it was the action of the specific person that counted, not the colour of people's skin. Malcom X had also enlightened certain ******s in the NOI that after his trip to Mecca, he'd learned that Islam was for all colours, not just black and brown. It was essentially the same route Wallace Muhammad chose to go down.

Saying that Muhammad Ali kidnapped Sonny Liston's kid and wife is 1. ludicrous. and 2. it's never been backed up by more than 1 book 50 years after it happened. Suspecious? Yes.

No as su****ious as the apparently toughest man at that time going down from a punch that barely connected and had all the force of a feather duster behind it.

I don't care for the Islam lesson.

Yes he was surrounded by white men, he often sprouted propaganda and forced people to agree/cower to him as evidenced in interviews.

The stuff regarding the devil, his thoughts on many topics and yeah, the NOI spaceship thing etc was extremist activity bearing resemblance to an Islamic version of Scientology, do you see this yes or no? I dunno what you would call it. You have LIED and called it a peaceful organisation.

I would call such activities and beliefs a CULT.

And I don't really come here to discuss this stuff. I think he was bad, I am open to other opinion, but I'd rather discuss boxing.

As for my comment about him telling people in clinches that stuff, that was more or less an original quote given by Muhammad Ali himself. I do not have these interviews on speed dial but this one is not mistaken. I think it might have been Parkinson.