Prime Tyson vs Prime Frazier

[Elroy1]

[IMG]http://img.***********.com/albums/v489/TheDevil21/Funny/4622173.gif[/IMG]

Marvis was not much of a downgrade from his father Joe.

As Billeau would say, if you can't accept it..

They are rather comparable I'm sorry. That is a fact! The main difference being the difference in opposition they were subjected to..

Obviously!

[LacedUp]

Where are the evidence that Ali beat his wife Elroy? Are you planning on ducking this?

[Elroy1]

Where are the evidence that Ali beat his wife Elroy? Are you planning on ducking this?

No I am not, I have just been searching through my sources and it seems I have over extended myself on that one.

Alas, I concede, I have no evidence that Ali beat his wife. He has however insisted on them "covering up" and other derogatory practices against women from what I have read, but you are right, he'd never been recorded to have beat them.

On all other points though you have extended yourself.

NOI was definitely an extremist group, there is no doubt. I can provide a summary of there belief system if you like.

And basically if you are exonerating Ali from acts like the Liston family kidnapping, then you are inadvertently implying that NOI or the "Black Panthers" had something to do with it aren't you yes?

Unfortunately for Ali he has gone on record making statement that he says to fighters in the clinch etc that his "friends" are waiting for him and they'll burn their house down etc. Smacks of terrorism to me? Wouldn't you say?

Ali is perhaps the biggest racist that ever lived who wasn't an actual murderer. It's beyond all doubt and irrefutable. Now I AGREE with you that Ali lived in times where there was massive persecution against blacks by whites and I pretty much agree with everything you said in this regard pertaining to Ali's fight against the government and empowering of black people.

But in turn, Ali was more full blown racist towards whites that the AVERAGE white person was toward blacks. And this is putting it lightly. I mean the guy called whites the devil and claimed that if a black man/woman roots a white man/woman, they should both be killed. What the hell?

I could go on and on here but you get the picture. But of course you have already tried to bail Ali out here by claiming he was "brainwashed" by NOI. The same "peace loving" organisation you were trying to sell me earlier. Well I would counterclaim that he was a psychopath. Because many of his other statements lend that much more credence than him being ****** in. The guy was strong minded yes or no? How would a strong minded young man be so easily misled? Can't have it both ways. Sonny Liston himself commenting about when he was down from the so called "phantom punch" from which he says he wasn't hurt at all and wanted to get up basically agrees Ali is a nut and you never know what a nut is going to do. The stench still lingers there!

Ali HATED white people. Just accept that.

But no he apparently didn't beat women, which I am surprised I didn't find that because I was sure I'd read it convincingly somewhere.

Anyway answer this then, why did he choose to keep the name of a slaver, tyrant, murderer, rapist "Muhammad Ali" if he was apparently "only joking"?

And why did he not denounce for instance the Sep11 attacks? He seemed only to be concerned with Islam being attacked. Suspect!

[Anxious Times]

Frazier wins.

Tyson is overrated IMO.

Joe was real.

[M Bison]

Frazier wins.

Tyson is overrated IMO.

Joe was real.

Frazier in his prime might beat the past his prime Mike Tyson but not this one

[Elroy1]

lol how is ali 0-3 vs norton are you ******ed? lmao you really are a hater trying to discredit a great....lol thats how a hater says things, he hates a fighter so bad that he starts to say he lost fights that he won, charlie zelenoff is that you?

Ali being 0-3 against Norton is the leading opinion from all serious boxing analysts, have you seen the fights? Try scoring them.

I am not "trying" to discredit any great.

Merely pointing out that, atleast in the ring, there was nothing terribly great about the guy to discredit in the first place. You are like a child in the darkness that's lost his way like so mANY others. I didn't make any of these facts. They were always there. All I did was turn on the light so you could see them

Yes clearly it's Charlie Zelenoff, you got me

[M Bison]

People say Frazier was hard to hit...
Tyson was much harder to hit clean if you weren't a big heavyweight who could paw that jab out and land from range.

[LacedUp]

No I am not, I have just been searching through my sources and it seems I have over extended myself on that one.

Alas, I concede, I have no evidence that Ali beat his wife. He has however insisted on them "covering up" and other derogatory practices against women from what I have read, but you are right, he'd never been recorded to have beat them.

On all other points though you have extended yourself.

NOI was definitely an extremist group, there is no doubt. I can provide a summary of there belief system if you like.

And basically if you are exonerating Ali from acts like the Liston family kidnapping, then you are inadvertently implying that NOI or the "Black Panthers" had something to do with it aren't you yes?

Unfortunately for Ali he has gone on record making statement that he says to fighters in the clinch etc that his "friends" are waiting for him and they'll burn their house down etc. Smacks of terrorism to me? Wouldn't you say?

Ali is perhaps the biggest racist that ever lived who wasn't an actual murderer. It's beyond all doubt and irrefutable. Now I AGREE with you that Ali lived in times where there was massive persecution against blacks by whites and I pretty much agree with everything you said in this regard pertaining to Ali's fight against the government and empowering of black people.

But in turn, Ali was more full blown racist towards whites that the AVERAGE white person was toward blacks. And this is putting it lightly. I mean the guy called whites the devil and claimed that if a black man/woman roots a white man/woman, they should both be killed. What the hell?

I could go on and on here but you get the picture. But of course you have already tried to bail Ali out here by claiming he was "brainwashed" by NOI. The same "peace loving" organisation you were trying to sell me earlier. Well I would counterclaim that he was a psychopath. Because many of his other statements lend that much more credence than him being ****** in. The guy was strong minded yes or no? How would a strong minded young man be so easily misled? Can't have it both ways. Sonny Liston himself commenting about when he was down from the so called "phantom punch" from which he says he wasn't hurt at all and wanted to get up basically agrees Ali is a nut and you never know what a nut is going to do. The stench still lingers there!

Ali HATED white people. Just accept that.

But no he apparently didn't beat women, which I am surprised I didn't find that because I was sure I'd read it convincingly somewhere.

Anyway answer this then, why did he choose to keep the name of a slaver, tyrant, murderer, rapist "Muhammad Ali" if he was apparently "only joking"?

And why did he not denounce for instance the Sep11 attacks? He seemed only to be concerned with Islam being attacked. Suspect!

The NOI and the black panthers are not the same. You know this right?

You are lying again Elroy, why are you doing this? Why do you have to make up lies to support your arguments?

[Elroy1]

Lol you say mike was a great man and ali wasnt...what is up with you... mike self admits that he was strung out on drugs and not a good guy when he was young lmao....

Ali put on an act in front of media it was his way of selling his personality and becoming controversial. hes a very different guy around his family and private life except for the fact he cheated on his wives.....he got into ppls heads and became the villian to his opponents and i think he got in youre head too lmao

I did not discredit Ali for the great things his DID do.

Just as I wont discredit Tyson for the good things he did!

Tyson certainly had MAJOR hangups, drug addiction, rage, psychotic behaviour at times. But he also had some very good qualities and also a kindness about him too. He was once "the good guy" too.

Ali, despite doing some good things, was also a bad man. The problem with Ali though is, while Tyson's antics were directed at a single person, Ali's were more broadly sociopathic, addressed to large groups and contained an idealogical element. Megalomaniacal.

Oh but it was all an act, of course.

Then why not extend the same courtesy to Tyson? All an act right?

[LacedUp]

I did not discredit Ali for the great things his DID do.

Just as I wont discredit Tyson for the good things he did!

Tyson certainly had MAJOR hangups, drug addiction, rage, psychotic behaviour at times. But he also had some very good qualities and also a kindness about him too. He was once "the good guy" too.

Ali, despite doing some good things, was also a bad man. The problem with Ali though is, while Tyson's antics were directed at a single person, Ali's were more broadly sociopathic, addressed to large groups and contained an idealogical element. Megalomaniacal.

Oh but it was all an act, of course.

Then why not extend the same courtesy to Tyson? All an act right?

I think you're jealous that people think of Ali as the greatest and not Wladimir Klitschko.

I don't know which world you live in, but it's close to fantasy land.