Prime Tyson vs Prime Frazier

[billeau2]

Ruddock is a pressure fighter as well, like Frazier, but Ruddock also has some actual boxing skill to back it up too. More the point, Ruddock is immensely powerful, able to do serious damage with his punches, unlike Joe, who's power was mainly dangerous against the sub 200 fighters whom Ruddock wasn't allowed to knock out. He is also extremely strongly built, at 6'3" and 240lbs.

Yeah, I think Razor Ruddock is just a little bit better equipped to stand up to Mike Tyson than friggin Frazier is!

Who is to say Razor didn't have heart like Joe's? How can you measure it? You can't! For me it's OBVIOUS Ruddock had ATLEAST as good a heart as Joe because he face more and much more dangerous opponents.

Point is, Joe's heart will not allow him to survive.

Ruddock was not a pressure fighter you dope!

He was a one armed fighter, a big guy with a punch and some resistance. He was lauded in the beginning of his career until people figured out how limited he was and after Lewis did a number on him.

[billeau2]

I know RedCyclone can't. He said to me the other day that reading is for losers and YouTube videos are enough.

He sounds like the kind of little girl who comes home and has a tantrum because people hurted his fewlings with hasty racially insensative remarks! wa wa wa!!!!

[bender2000]

some people saying frazier was featherfisted and glass jawed ?????? are they serious or just plain ****** ???? the lack of boxing knowledge pre Tyson era is astounding !!!

[abdelfadeel]

some people saying frazier was featherfisted and glass jawed ?????? are they serious or just plain ****** ???? the lack of boxing knowledge pre Tyson era is astounding !!!

There is no way of educating pork. These lying scum will try to convince you Ruddock had more heart than Frazier. You know who thinks Razor Ruddock was a good fighter?Tyson fan boys.Child ******ers, rapists, etc. Ruddock was a bum.And the fact that he did well against Tyson showed that Tyson was a bum.Both Lewis and Morrison stopped Ruddock much quicker than Tyson did.Which tells you alot about this so called power Tyson had. Hell even Jaco stopped him in one round
When did Tyson get hit with hard punches and walk right through them? Neither Holyfield, Douglas, Williams, or Mcbride, are really hard punchers and they all handed Tyson his ass. A prime Holyfield couldn't knock down or out a old Foreman which shows you how much tougher Foreman was than Tyson.
So for a start, when making a fantasy Tyson matchup, you must first ignore all the fanboys who's memeroy doesn't go back any further than 1985.

[billeau2]

some people saying frazier was featherfisted and glass jawed ?????? are they serious or just plain ****** ???? the lack of boxing knowledge pre Tyson era is astounding !!!

Its only a few dopes....Elroy starts these conversations when he goes off his ADD meds and when Mom turns the internet off in the basement. But thats what happens when you use the generic birth control.... I saved a whole buck fitty how was I to know rite aid was not comprable to Trojan man?

Elroy really is a nice guy though.... Its just that when someone offered him an extra chromosome well.... it seemed like a good idea at the time.

And he really follows boxing! he colors in all the figures in his boxing book with his favorite crayola colors.

And I don't want to say the guy lacks sense.... But in his astronomy class when they were trying to figure out how to go to the sun? Elroy suggested going at night. Oh well....

What can you do? Elroy still thinks human beings have elvolved in the last 70 years so now unlike their ancient ancestors can punch really hard now! Darwin eat your heart out.

[Elroy1]

I deal with facts, not ramblings..

Frazier's KO stats vs 200+ opponents, is not good. Indicating he had power for a CW but not what TODAY we would call a HW.

Frazier demonstratably could not handle hard punchers. He ducked many hard hitters of his era, was decked by bummy cruiser type boxers and was annihilated by the only real power puncher he fought 2ce.

When I say Frazier is chinny and featherfisted, it's how the real record reads.

Plus you can SEE on film how those shots wouldn't phase any strong HW of more recent times, especially Tyson!

As for Ruddock! How can you say he didn't have the same heart as Joe? Did you measure it?

Who said Razor was a great boxer? I didn't say that. I spoke bout how much stronger, longer, heftier and more powerful he was than Joe. And how he was a more skilled boxer than Joe. For the criteria of his day he was somewhat limited. Then again, having Lennox Lewis do a number on you isn't anything too degrading, an opponent that Foreman himself openly ducked!
But he'd still finish Joe in the 1st round no doubt!

[Elroy1]

Let's throw Joe a bone here.

Razor was once beaten by David Jaco.

I think Frazier could have beaten David Jaco.

So by triangulation you could argue that Frazier might be able to "Jaco" Ruddock. But commonsense tells you that Jaco got lucky, as does the actual fight footage, it seems Razor had health problems.

[abdelfadeel]

I deal with facts, not ramblings..

Frazier's KO stats vs 200+ opponents, is not good. Indicating he had power for a CW but not what TODAY we would call a HW.

Frazier demonstratably could not handle hard punchers. He ducked many hard hitters of his era, was decked by bummy cruiser type boxers and was annihilated by the only real power puncher he fought 2ce.

When I say Frazier is chinny and featherfisted, it's how the real record reads.

Plus you can SEE on film how those shots wouldn't phase any strong HW of more recent times, especially Tyson!

As for Ruddock! How can you say he didn't have the same heart as Joe? Did you measure it?

Who said Razor was a great boxer? I didn't say that. I spoke bout how much stronger, longer, heftier and more powerful he was than Joe. And how he was a more skilled boxer than Joe. For the criteria of his day he was somewhat limited.

But he'd still finish Joe in the 1st round no doubt!

People act as though being blown out by a peak Foreman DQs Frazier against every puncher ever born, which I just cant understand at all.

If a mack truck kills me, every car on the road then would, too? Or they use that ridiculous point that he fought a hard, close bout & was floored by Bonavena, which is ******ed beyond belief & I dont even correct anymore, its so obvious why thats flawed. Frazier had much more heart than ruddock. Sorry if you can't handle it.

[Elroy1]

Laced Up...

Ok so Muhammad did some charitable things for ppl. Ok. I don't want to knock him for any of that.

But you must understand that he did many terrible things too. He did oppress/beat his women. He was involved in kidnappings of the family of a certain opponent. He was involved in a fundamentalist religious group connected with terrorism, he bad mouthed in very unsavoury fashion fighters before the fight (like Frazier) and unnecessarily tortured opponents who were so weak they should not have even shared the same ring with him (like Patterson). And he was an extreme racist, whatever his motives!

So he is a 2 headed dragon you might say.

What bothers me the most is that your saying he did more than any sportsman ever for the human race. Preposterous!

Most sportsmen are charitable in many ways, maybe it's because Muhammad was such a bigot that you always heard about it.

What about the in-ring niceties of Mike Tyson, when he always helped his fallen opponent up to their feet. What about Tyson's nice comments about beaten boxers, or even boxers like Lewis who defeated him, after the fight?

And what about out of ring greatness like Vitali Klitschko of all people, who lead their entire country and millions of people through civil war, right in the middle of violent riots, all in the pursuit of peace and a stand against oppression.

Are you telling me that Muhammad Ali's acts of charity, despite all his negative qualities are more honourable for the human race than what this man has done/is doing for it?

Come on man.. You are searching with that statement!

[Elroy1]

People act as though being blown out by a peak Foreman DQs Frazier against every puncher ever born, which I just cant understand at all.

If a mack truck kills me, every car on the road then would, too? Or they use that ridiculous point that he fought a hard, close bout & was floored by Bonavena, which is ******ed beyond belief & I dont even correct anymore, its so obvious why thats flawed. Frazier had much more heart than ruddock. Sorry if you can't handle it.

Well I've seen no convincing evidence that he did have more heart than Ruddock so know I don't need to handle anything. What I did see was Ruddock take on more numerous and far more dangerous overall boxers than what Frazier did. And fight hard. I can't say that Ruddock had more heart than Joe based on that, but it lends more credence that your simply declaring the opposite based on nothing at all!

The REASON ppl claim that Frazier would be knocked out by most modern punchers based off the Foreman KO losses is because it's the only time Frazier ever faced what today we would consider a hard puncher.

AND the fact that Foreman was much slower and far less skilled (in the 70's) than any ranked puncher that came afterward, lending extreme credence to idea that Frazier, would be ****** out quickly by pretty much any of them.

The stylistic reason for this, is that Frazier walked straight forward, defenceless into the jaws of death. If Froeman can catch Frazier with those left and right clubbing shots, what hope does he have evading a more skilled delivering puncher or faster one?

Quite simply, it was OK for Frazier to employ that strategy in the 60's and 70's (except against Foreman) because the opponents were so weak. These days things are very different. Taking a single hard shot will get you knocked straight out.

Enter Tyson. A faster, stronger, more athletic etc etc etc boxer than Frazier in every way but more importantly, much more skilled. Offensively AND defensively!