I think it's safe to say, Mayweather has probably the best defence in boxing history

[Kagami Taiga]

1) Listen to the foreman interview (recent) on NPR. Why discount a defensive tactic? Actually if the fact that Castillo landed on Floyd's body (as you imply by saying he didn't catch him to the head) matters....then it also does for Ali yes?

2) Pea may have had some problems but his defensive capabilities are what enabled him. Frazier and Norton would give anyone hell. Oscar caught Floyd wth jabs for a while, Madianna gave Floyd hell.

My point is that one can go tit for tat because with the exception of Roy Jones...albeit BRIEFLY....nobody really was untouched totally and it would be kind of silly saying that Jone's was a defensive wizard. JOnes ability was incredible but it was not defense.

But my real point in mentioning Ali was and is, that its hard to come up with a criteria for what makes a fighter comprable defensively to another fighter when we get to the real good defensive fighters. My own preference would be a defensive ability that, while not being counterpunching, creates opportunities for the fighter and allows him to win by virtue of defensive actions.

For example, Julio Ceaser Chavez, a real pressing punching machine was outclassed and beaten (scrrew the judges) by Pea because of defensive movements that took away Chavez's punching ability and press. Ali defensively created the win over Foreman...Foreman says as much. These are examples....BUT Mayweather could not defensively neutralize Madianna, Correles, Castillo. He won doing other things.

Dude, wtf are u talking about? Corrales was totally shut down by Floyd's defense. I'm guessing u have never seen a corrales fight prior to Floyd fighting him. Same for Castillo in the 2nd fight. And once again as stated above that a very small selection of fights to choose from. Every defensive great u can name had hard fights. And most of them were knocked out. Not styrene what u are arguing because it simply doesn't make sense.

[puga]

Ridiculous oversimplification, Ali used angles, timing and body movement to take the sting out of those punches. YOu could not simply let Foreman punch on you....these are the same idiots who think ali got Parkinsons because of the Rope a dope.

Thats a good possibility...rope a dope is fancy sounding and balsy but its a risky move... had floyd done the same he wouldve done it a lot better than anyone with fill in counters in between just to disrupt his opponents offensive rythm but its really impractical with a defensive skill level like floyd's....

[ADP02]

Dude, wtf are u talking about? Corrales was totally shut down by Floyd's defense. I'm guessing u have never seen a corrales fight prior to Floyd fighting him. Same for Castillo in the 2nd fight. And once again as stated above that a very small selection of fights to choose from. Every defensive great u can name had hard fights. And most of them were knocked out. Not styrene what u are arguing because it simply doesn't make sense.

It's been well documented that Corrales was severely weight drained for the Floyd fight and had other issues like preparing to go to jail ......

[IronDanHamza]

Floyd is an exceptional fighter with an exceptional defense, period.
But he has spent almost 15 years fighting guys with the same styles or same flaws. If he fought the right guys; Tsyzu, Matthysse, Margarito, Pacquaio, Lara he would get hit a hell of a lot more.
Locche, Toney, B-Hop all these old defensive fighters fought real elites and a variety of styles unlike Floyd.

If Joan Guzman had discipline and orchestrated his career like Floyd he could do it the same if not better. Hes every bit as good as Floyd defensively & even better offensively, better combination puncher & he can fight off the ropes too, not laying against the ropes looking to land a slappy counter right hand whilst getting hammered to the body.

Rigondeaux has fought big textbook boxers, brawlers, counterpunchers, boxers, explosive counterpunchers, southpaw counterpunchers, he isn't picking them. Every fighter hes fought in the pros has had a different style.

Sure Rigo can be hit by a good shot but you'd never see him getting battered from pillar to post and hit with 5 punch combinations like Corley, Augustus, Maidana hit Floyd with. The ways to beat him or have great success has always been there he just fights guys incapable of exploiting it.
His defense is great he is a great fighter but a very selective one and I am sure many elite fighters could of done virtually the same if they could of afforded to be so picky.

Guzman's opposition level is diabolical and he's not had remote success in comparison to Floyd so to say if he orcastrated his career in the same way he'd so similar if not better I think it's completely illogical. There's no way Guzman could go through Floyd's resume undefeated.

As for Rigondeaux, you're saying he's fought many styles but he majority of fighters he's fought aren't very good so what does it show? Rigondeaux's opposition compared to Floyds isn't in the same stratosphere and saying "he's fought different styles" is like me saying Floyd's fought Manfredy who's a slick boxer, Judah who's an explosive southpaw speed fighter, Oscar who's a solid technically boxer with skills, Marquez who's a great counter puncher and combination puncher, the exact same thing can be said.

Some of the guys you named like Tszyu, Margarito and Matthysse have the exact same flaws you're talking about with other fighters they aren't very fast and aren't difficult to hit.

I've also rarely seen Floyd hit cleanly with a combination.

[The Gambler1981]

Floyd is an exceptional fighter with an exceptional defense, period.
But he has spent almost 15 years fighting guys with the same styles or same flaws. If he fought the right guys; Tsyzu, Matthysse, Margarito, Pacquaio, Lara he would get hit a hell of a lot more.
Locche, Toney, B-Hop all these old defensive fighters fought real elites and a variety of styles unlike Floyd.

If Joan Guzman had discipline and orchestrated his career like Floyd he could do it the same if not better. Hes every bit as good as Floyd defensively & even better offensively, better combination puncher & he can fight off the ropes too, not laying against the ropes looking to land a slappy counter right hand whilst getting hammered to the body.

Rigondeaux has fought big textbook boxers, brawlers, counterpunchers, boxers, explosive counterpunchers, southpaw counterpunchers, he isn't picking them. Every fighter hes fought in the pros has had a different style.

Sure Rigo can be hit by a good shot but you'd never see him getting battered from pillar to post and hit with 5 punch combinations like Corley, Augustus, Maidana hit Floyd with. The ways to beat him or have great success has always been there he just fights guys incapable of exploiting it.
His defense is great he is a great fighter but a very selective one and I am sure many elite fighters could of done virtually the same if they could of afforded to be so picky.

Who we think is best defensively is obviously a highly opinion based question and there are reasons to like Rigondeaux.

However, to even entertain his name in such a discussion I need to see a lot more out of Rigondeaux against a wider array of opposition he should be able to handle that even at 126 if that is his level.

I ain't from Missouri but "Show Me"

[IronDanHamza]

James Toney's defence > Floyd's defence.

Aren't you going to post a video of Toney getting consistently hit by Tiberi, Thazdi, Johnson, Nunn, Sosa etc?

[dan_cov]

Guzman's opposition level is diabolical and he's not had remote success in comparison to Floyd so to say if he orcastrated his career in the same way he'd so similar if not better I think it's completely illogical. There's no way Guzman could go through Floyd's resume undefeated.

As for Rigondeaux, you're saying he's fought many styles but he majority of fighters he's fought aren't very good so what does it show? Rigondeaux's opposition compared to Floyds isn't in the same stratosphere and saying "he's fought different styles" is like me saying Floyd's fought Manfredy who's a slick boxer, Judah who's an explosive southpaw speed fighter, Oscar who's a solid technically boxer with skills, Marquez who's a great counter puncher and combination puncher, the exact same thing can be said.

Some of the guys you named like Tszyu, Margarito and Matthysse have the exact same flaws you're talking about with other fighters they aren't very fast and aren't difficult to hit.

I've also rarely seen Floyd hit cleanly with a combination.

There is no denying Floyd has a far better resume I am saying talent wise if he was dedicated and fought good opponents but ones made to order - Slow, flat-footed opposition who will try and box with him he'd also be right up there. He'd of looked almost unbeatable & I truly believe many others if they was so careful in opponent selecting.

I give you those and he did, he used to fight legitimate opposition but for the past 10-12 years for most part nearly all have been cherrypicked to make him look even better than he is. Since Castillo they've pretty much all been farces IMO except for Cotto & Hatton (who looked awful & arguably lost his welter debut) Canelo was a good win, made to order though but was talked up as a threat he clearly wasn't. Again he tainted that he could of done the same with a 154 Canelo and that would of been one less thing critics hated on him for.

Fans know he won't fight this guy and that one so they come up with someone 'acceptable' and go overboard with it, Floyd will take it if he knows there is no risk. The Maidana fight was a cherrypick that almost backfired.

Rigondeaux can't get the fights (LSC, Quigg, Frampton are all ducking him) Avalos pulled out as did Poonsawatt, Floyd can and turns them down until he sees a highly ranked fighter, a vulnerable champion come along that he knows he will win an easy 12 round decision against. He won't take a risk he showed that in the Maidana rematch with the gloves, huge ring & it may as well of been Roger refereeing the fight.

I used to be a big Floyd fan but I just can't support a guy who won't fight a legitimate threat and severely handicaps opponents. I think he could of gone down as 'TBE' I always liked him over Margarito & Pacquaio especially, Cassamayor, Tyszu but to me he is a waste of talent. He had all the tools to be one of the very best ever if not the best he just didn't dare to take those necessary risks. He'll still go down as a great, great fighter just not as highly as he should of, that frustrates me and it is his doing.

[TheRichCoward]

The thread subject says he probably has the best defence in history, yet in the first post you claim he's head and shoulders beyond anyone else?

I doubt it tbh, anyone who gets rocked by a shot Shane Mosley shouldn't be in the conversation.

And gets their tooth knocked out by a journeyman. Great defense.

[IronDanHamza]

There is no denying Floyd has a far better resume I am saying talent wise if he was dedicated and fought good opponents but ones made to order - Slow, flat-footed opposition who will try and box with him he'd also be right up there. He'd of looked almost unbeatable & I truly believe many others if they was so careful in opponent selecting.

I give you those and he did, he used to fight legitimate opposition but for the past 10-12 years for most part nearly all have been cherrypicked to make him look even better than he is. Since Castillo they've pretty much all been farces IMO except for Cotto & Hatton (who looked awful & arguably lost his welter debut) Canelo was a good win, made to order though but was talked up as a threat he clearly wasn't. Again he tainted that he could of done the same with a 154 Canelo and that would of been one less thing critics hated on him for.

Fans know he won't fight this guy and that one so they come up with someone 'acceptable' and go overboard with it, Floyd will take it if he knows there is no risk. The Maidana fight was a cherrypick that almost backfired.

Rigondeaux can't get the fights (LSC, Quigg, Frampton are all ducking him) Avalos pulled out as did Poonsawatt, Floyd can and turns them down until he sees a highly ranked fighter, a vulnerable champion come along that he knows he will win an easy 12 round decision against. He won't take a risk he showed that in the Maidana rematch with the gloves, huge ring & it may as well of been Roger refereeing the fight.

I used to be a big Floyd fan but I just can't support a guy who won't fight a legitimate threat and severely handicaps opponents. I think he could of gone down as 'TBE' I always liked him over Margarito & Pacquaio especially, Cassamayor, Tyszu but to me he is a waste of talent. He had all the tools to be one of the very best ever if not the best he just didn't dare to take those necessary risks. He'll still go down as a great, great fighter just not as highly as he should of, that frustrates me and it is his doing.

Guzman has fought those kind of opponents except much worse and looked worse so again I can't see how that's a logical line of thinking.

Saying people could do the same. Who? Who could go through that resume undefeated and losing such a low amount of rounds? Pacquaio wouldn't, Marquez wouldn't, not many would.

You're saying on one hand Rigondeuax can't get fights, that's true. But then your listing fighters Floyd didn't fight like they were his fault (Tszyu, Casamayor)

I just don't think it's sound logic. If Rigondeaux has fougt a "range of styles" then so has Floyd just better fighters. Guzman? Come on. Imagine if Floyd fought Guzman's opposition, imagine that. He wouldn't have lost a round in his career probably.

Floyd's fought top ranked fighters, top P4P fighters, in 5 divisons. And you're telling me Guzman would have similar success if he were to do this?

[IronDanHamza]

And gets their tooth knocked out by a journeyman. Great defense.

Who do you think has a great defense?

Whitaker? He got beat up by journeyman.

And I mean an actual journeyman. Not a world champion like Maidana.