Why is Joe Louis Rated so Highly?

[Capaedia]

To see what Joe Louis does to a great light heavyweight without a stylistic advantage over him, look no further than his one round destruction over John Henry Lewis.

Very brutal, and very short.

Louis was not a seek and destroy kind of fighter in the conventional sense. Whilst he was aggressive he liked to take his time. His power, combinations, accuracy and finishing ability lent itself to knockouts but if he didn't get his opportunity, he could coast to an uneventful decision. See Tommy Farr.

[LacedUp]

In a historical sense, nobody should doubt the achievements of Louis. Unlike the manufactured achievements of Dempsey, his were real.

But we have to adjust "mythology" to "the truth".

The example of Billy Conn above as being some sort of good opponent is laughable! He was a total bum, nothing more or less. What's more he had absolutely no business fighting in the HW division even with the HW limit being much less than today!

You are talking about a guy with a highly questionable record, that began his career as practically a featherweight (!!!) And suffered multiple losses as he gained weight including 6 (!!!!) losses at ****ing welterweight (!!). There is no boxer today that would have any business fighting ANY HW today with a background like that, let alone a dominant HW champion.

Michael Spinks? You have got to be joking drawing such comparisons! Spinks was 6'2.5" tall. He was already a MW in the ammy's. He was ALWAYS a light HW as a professional and what's more, never lost a single fight at that weight (and in fact only suffered the one single loss to Tyson).

Spinks is a giant compared to Conn in terms of both size AND quality. And need you be reminded that when Spinks fought Tyson he weight something like 215 lbs. He was, even by the definition today, a HW! Billy Conn when he fought Joe Louis I don't think even made the HW limit back THEN!

What's more, the fight Spinks vs Tyson was a total mismatch. Spinks was far too weak to even fight Mike Tyson and the only reason Spinks agreed to be knocked out was for a last giant pay day.

It's only because of the fact that Joe Louis struggled to beat Billy Conn that he must be promoted as a decent opponent in order to keep the Louis mythology alive.

His 25 or so title defences still stands at the number 1 in total. But it must always be remembered that the opponents which he scored these wins against were so bad they would never even BE pro boxers in subsequent eras. Let alone HW boxers.

For instance consider what'd happen if Louis met Tyson? Anybody who envisions Louis surviving a single round against Tyson should not, cannot be taken seriously. Similar to Spinks.

What about Chris Byrd whom you've previously eluded to as one of Wlad's best wins? He was a amateur light welterweight and started as a middleweight,

[#1Assassin]

He did have power and some solid offensive skills, a good jab and a terrific right hand but he wasn't exceptional in any one department like Ali was or Foreman or even Tyson, although Id probably rank Louis higher than Tyson.

His title reign is a major contributor to his greatness yet it was filled with has beens, never beens and fat boys, something even the media at the time recognised. It's difficult to rank such an iconic champion objectively.

he was more than some solid offensve skills, he was one of the very best offensive fighters in the histpry of boxing across all weightclasses. to say he wasnt exceptional in any one department is ludicrous, he was exceptional in several departments.

he had incredible power, hand speed, combination punching, punch variety, punching technique, timing, accuracy, ability to pick set up his punches, ability to finish etc.. again, he was one of the very best offensive fighters the sport has ever seen and ranks way ahead of tyson. its not even a matter of opinion its a matter of knowledge and common sense.

naturally when there is only one title and you defend it 25 times there are going to be a fair share of weak defenses, all great champions fought lesser challengers. louis did more than most, in part because of the time but also because of how good he was.

compare him to marciano, his best wins are all against light heavyweights and middleweights. yes, these men fought louis as well but a badly faded version of him. one could question whether they would have tried there luck at HW if a prime louis was around.

[sicko]

Give me an effing break. Anyone who claims they know where to rank Jack Johnson is someone who wants to sound smart, but isn't.

There is no way we know how good Jack Johnson would line up against the eras where boxing was refined into an art, and had far more people and money in it. ******ed argument.

May as well put Ras***** and Genghis Khan on the list.

EXACTLY! All these WANNABE Burt Sugars over here and most of them don't know WTF they're talking about reading some of these comments

[Weltschmerz]

the first schmeling fight was a different case, but louis was totally done when he fought charles. he retired after stopping walcott, and made a comeback. he was hardly fit to be in a boxing ring when he fought marciano. he was a fraction of what he used to be.

Cry me a river. All losses count. Louis was similar age as Vlad is TODAY when Marciano knocked him out of the ring. Not a very ATG like way going out.

[Elroy1]

Not only is there absolutely no proof of your assertions regarding size....there is much proof to the contrary. Have you seen a picture of Prima Canera for example? he was hardly the uncoordinated lumox you characterize big men as of that time. People like you and Weltz*** perpetrate these ideas with absolutely no sense of looking at the data. Furthermore, people who actually saw guys fight across generations have weighed in on these points and seem to disagree with your assertion.

Just off the top of my head we have people like James Toney fighting the big hard men of today and seeming to do ok despite his build, his size and what-not. Chris Byrd was not totally outclassed because of his size either...And this is at a cursory glance! You see how ridiculous these assertions are? They have been proven patently wrong!

Primo Carnera is a complete oaf.

There have only been 3 championship worthy boxers since Primo Carnera who MIGHT have been considered less skilled.

- Sonny Liston. Arguably the slowest HW champion of all time and highly uncoordinated, except for a somewhat good jab.

- George Foreman 70's, all power, total disregard for skills. Did not even learn how to box until the age of 40!

- Nikolay Valuev, fundamentally decent but otherwise reliant solely on being the biggest boxer ever. Pretty much the same as Primo skill wise, but even larger.

And of these 3 guys, I tip all of them to have wasted Primo anyway!

[Elroy1]

What about Chris Byrd whom you've previously eluded to as one of Wlad's best wins? He was a amateur light welterweight and started as a middleweight,

If I am not mistaken it's always been you and your intellectually impaired friends who have tried to promote Byrd as Wladimir's best win, and I have always been on record stating it was a very good win but not one of his top 5 opponents or anything. It was a very dominant win against an opponent who stylistically and physically had no chance of winning whatsoever, EXACTLY like Spinks vs Tyson!

That's true that he started out lighter, similar to Conn. Very good observation. However there are 3 obvious differences.

1/ Conn was not a skilled boxer in comparison to Chris Byrd who was a master escapologist and round stealer.

2/ When Wladimir Klitschko fought Chris Byrd, Byrd on both occasions weighed around 215lbs. He was today, and in every definition that ever was, a HW when they fought.

3/ Chris Byrd's rise through the weights was achieved (atleast in his professional career) without any defeats, whatsoever! Unlike Conn. And it was only against giant and proficient HW's that he suffered defeats or draws.

Wladimir Klitschko - virtually invincible now.
Ike Ibeabuchi - monstrously built HW with furious workrate.
Andrew Golota - highly skilled giant HW whom Byrd still managed to score a draw with.

Yes sure to old Cap above too, we can grant Mr. Conn some bereavement then from his early performances then for losses since he was much greener than guys like Byrd, Spinks etc.

BUT, what does that say for Louis? That he struggled to beat a very unseasoned boxer without a pedigree who also was tiny compared with him? Imo, that's even worse!

Please imagine if Billy Conn, at any point in his sub HW career, fought a top fighter of the comparative weight today? He would instantly be knocked out and everybody knows it!

[Elroy1]

Cry me a river. All losses count. Louis was similar age as Vlad is TODAY when Marciano knocked him out of the ring. Not a very ATG like way going out.

I agree.

Either Marciano was better than Louis, OR

If Louis WAS done by the time he fought Marciano, it's only because he'd taken too much damage throughout his career (as compared with Wlaidmir.)

It's given that a pressure fighter will have a shorter shelf life than the average boxer.

But there should be no reason why a technical boxer-puncher like Louis is supposed to represent should be done by that time. Especially when he was much larger and more experienced than his opponent! Other than being punch drunk.

[billeau2]

Primo Carnera is a complete oaf.

There have only been 3 championship worthy boxers since Primo Carnera who MIGHT have been considered less skilled.

- Sonny Liston. Arguably the slowest HW champion of all time and highly uncoordinated, except for a somewhat good jab.

- George Foreman 70's, all power, total disregard for skills. Did not even learn how to box until the age of 40!

- Nikolay Valuev, fundamentally decent but otherwise reliant solely on being the biggest boxer ever. Pretty much the same as Primo skill wise, but even larger.

And of these 3 guys, I tip all of them to have wasted Primo anyway!

Here comes the dumb money.....straight from the ban with no delays....

[Jc8804]

Combinations
Balance
Two fisted power
Finisher
Powerful short Punches on the inside
Cold but good chin
Excellent Punching technique
Title defenses.
At the time of his prime was over , his situation overshadowed his value, jack johnson was the best ever at that time. And a phenom.joe became that guy in most purists eyes. When ali came along showing liston was a very solid champ nothing more.
Only ray rob was considered better.
Then ali and then duran.
Joe has his spot.

Lay off. Boxing has exsisted longer the just the 80s and 90s and 2000s