Why is Joe Louis Rated so Highly?

[Elroy1]

Here comes the dumb money.....straight from the ban with no delays....

How did you even know I was banned? Bit odd that. Anyway why I was had nothing to do with your dementia plagued conception of this sport. Did you have anything to offer exactly or are you merely trolling?

Probably better that you leave a smart ass comment and leave it for others to question your idiocy than to post your feeble reasoning and remove all doubt.

[soul_survivor]

Cooney a year prior? Gerry Cooney was never that good, but at that stage he had been ruined by a prolonged beating from Holmes, he had also heavily taken up drugs and alcohol. Although a great puncher he put up a very feeble effort against Spinks. Following and just not knowing how to find a target that moved away.

Very frustrating to see a man like that be guided to the top level. He just took left hand after left hand, no defense or ring IQ in sight. Stopping Cooney was a feat on size and size alone.

Holmes was a great win. No dis*****g that.



He struggled with a bad stylistic match-up, the weight doesn't have much to do with it. In fact that probably made his style worse for Joe Louis since he was very fleet for a light-heavyweight. The difference was even more marked at heavyweight. Conn was on a hot-streak at the time, and had success at heavyweight after the first fight.

Louis then dominated and stopped him in a rematch. Compare how Conn did compared to how his largest opponents did. They were sitting ducks since they weren't elusive enough to avoid Louis.

Styles or not, when you outweigh a man by some 30lb, you got to put him away. The fight went 13 bloody rounds lol

he was more than some solid offensve skills, he was one of the very best offensive fighters in the histpry of boxing across all weightclasses. to say he wasnt exceptional in any one department is ludicrous, he was exceptional in several departments.

he had incredible power, hand speed, combination punching, punch variety, punching technique, timing, accuracy, ability to pick set up his punches, ability to finish etc.. again, he was one of the very best offensive fighters the sport has ever seen and ranks way ahead of tyson. its not even a matter of opinion its a matter of knowledge and common sense.

naturally when there is only one title and you defend it 25 times there are going to be a fair share of weak defenses, all great champions fought lesser challengers. louis did more than most, in part because of the time but also because of how good he was.

compare him to marciano, his best wins are all against light heavyweights and middleweights. yes, these men fought louis as well but a badly faded version of him. one could question whether they would have tried there luck at HW if a prime louis was around.

Look, no one is dis*****g Louis' ability and some of his physical attributes, well I'm not but as I said in my original post and maybe some of that has been lost as this thread has progressed: does Louis deserved to be ranked 1 or 2 at heavyweight and/or as a top 10 p4p guy. Many people have him ranked like that. I don't think I can do that, you mentioned Louis' hand speed, his hands were quick but comparing it to the heavyweight division alone, from the videos and footage I have seen of various fighters, I'd say his hand speed lagged behind the likes of Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, Patterson...he's not even a top 5 in his own division in terms of handspeed.

A true p4p ATG who deserves to be ranked top 10, must have attributes which rank at the very least in the top 5 with comparable fighters and divisions. Louis' power is probably the only attribute that does. His chin and footwork lag behind, as does his boxing IQ.

The question was not is Louis a great heavyweight but rather, why is he often ranked as a top top top heavyweight and a top top top p4p great. To me, no matter how you slice it, it doesn't work. I can't see him being comparable to Ali, Robinson, Pep, Armstrong, Leonard, Duran, Chavez and co. In fact, it's madness to even think it in my opinion, which I've tried to base as much on facts as possible (which is why I'm holding resume as such an important point cos you can't fake who you fought).

let's take off our rose tinted glasses and be objective here.

[Weltschmerz]

Styles or not, when you outweigh a man by some 30lb, you got to put him away. The fight went 13 bloody rounds lol



Look, no one is dis*****g Louis' ability and some of his physical attributes, well I'm not but as I said in my original post and maybe some of that has been lost as this thread has progressed: does Louis deserved to be ranked 1 or 2 at heavyweight and/or as a top 10 p4p guy. Many people have him ranked like that. I don't think I can do that, you mentioned Louis' hand speed, his hands were quick but comparing it to the heavyweight division alone, from the videos and footage I have seen of various fighters, I'd say his hand speed lagged behind the likes of Ali, Tyson, Frazier, Holyfield, Patterson...he's not even a top 5 in his own division in terms of handspeed.

A true p4p ATG who deserves to be ranked top 10, must have attributes which rank at the very least in the top 5 with comparable fighters and divisions. Louis' power is probably the only attribute that does. His chin and footwork lag behind, as does his boxing IQ.

The question was not is Louis a great heavyweight but rather, why is he often ranked as a top top top heavyweight and a top top top p4p great. To me, no matter how you slice it, it doesn't work. I can't see him being comparable to Ali, Robinson, Pep, Armstrong, Leonard, Duran, Chavez and co. In fact, it's madness to even think it in my opinion, which I've tried to base as much on facts as possible (which is why I'm holding resume as such an important point cos you can't fake who you fought).

let's take off our rose tinted glasses and be objective here.

I agree with everything here.

[LacedUp]

I agree with everything here.

Wlad outweighed Haye, Chambers, Byrd etc by more than 30 pounds and they all gave him 12 rounds, only Chambers was stopped.

[Weltschmerz]

Wlad outweighed Haye, Chambers, Byrd etc by more than 30 pounds and they all gave him 12 rounds, only Chambers was stopped.

He knocked Byrd out in their second fight.

[Suckmedry]

One thing people miss about the Conn fight is the fact that Conn was a skilful fast moving lhw..A guy like that will give nearly any hw problems until they catch them...

[Weltschmerz]

One thing people miss about the Conn fight is the fact that Conn was a skilful fast moving lhw..A guy like that will give nearly any hw problems until they catch them...

Yep, and he even came close to winning the title in their first fight, as he almost had Louis in the 12th round. He roughed Louis up on the inside plenty of times in that fight, and he was as you mention just a LHW wrestling a 200 pound man around.

As I think others mentioned here, Conn could very well have won had he continued to move, box, get in and out, and catch Louis again. He got reckless instead. But as we know, Louis had great trouble with boxers moving around well.

[LacedUp]

He knocked Byrd out in their second fight.

And Louis knocked out Conn in both of their fights?

It still doesn't change the fact that Wlad has gone the distance with guys he's outweighed by 20 or 30 pounds on multiple occassions.

So why are we changing the criteria for Louis, when he in fact did knock the opponent in question out both times, when Wlad did not?

[LacedUp]

I still want to know how you can degrade Louis for his losses when 1) he lost to 3 current/future world champions and hall of famers and avenged one of them, and you big up Wlad who's lost 3 times to guys outside the top 10 and top 15 that never amounted much in their careers other than beating Wlad?

[Weltschmerz]

And Louis knocked out Conn in both of their fights?

It still doesn't change the fact that Wlad has gone the distance with guys he's outweighed by 20 or 30 pounds on multiple occassions.

So why are we changing the criteria for Louis, when he in fact did knock the opponent in question out both times, when Wlad did not?

Vladimir has a higher KO ratio than Louis.