Why is Joe Louis Rated so Highly?

[Weltschmerz]

I still want to know how you can degrade Louis for his losses when 1) he lost to 3 current/future world champions and hall of famers and avenged one of them, and you big up Wlad who's lost 3 times to guys outside the top 10 and top 15 that never amounted much in their careers other than beating Wlad?

Vladimir wasn't floored by several bums during his career, and Vladimir has never been knocked out cold. Vladimir's defeats came vs tough, durable opposition, and hard, hard punchers, especially Sanders, a guy who even had the iron chinned Vitali running and holding for dear life in the early rounds of their fight. Vladimir wasn't rocked by a 175 pound man either.

[Elroy1]

I still want to know how you can degrade Louis for his losses when 1) he lost to 3 current/future world champions and hall of famers and avenged one of them, and you big up Wlad who's lost 3 times to guys outside the top 10 and top 15 that never amounted much in their careers other than beating Wlad?

Well I'm not specifically sure why Wladimir has to be the benchmark here for you LacedUp, but since you posed this question, you do in fact make a point that Louis's losses were in comparative terms in better standing than Wladimir's going by their "rankings" at fight time. Nobody disputes that.

But really, focussing on that solely is just a convenient way of skirting the truth.

Puritty was a bum, granted but a very tough bum of this era. Had he fought Louis, Puritty would probably have been HW champ for certain. He probably would have cleaned up that era, sad as it sounds. As for the other 2, the fact they were not rated as highly it testament to the quality of their era. They were very tough boxers.

Conversely, the fact that such **** house little boxers could be ranked in the top 10 at HW is irrefutable proof of how limited and weak Louis's era really was.

The proof of the real quality of all HW boxers across all generations is real easy to assess..

Take the record, knock off the bums, knock off the cruisers.

Then you can make a realistic comparison.

Even then you can see the quality of Louis.

But you can also see that an Ali, a Holmes, a Wlad, a Vitali, a Lennox, Holyfield or Tyson for example... He is not!

[soul_survivor]

And Louis knocked out Conn in both of their fights?

It still doesn't change the fact that Wlad has gone the distance with guys he's outweighed by 20 or 30 pounds on multiple occassions.

So why are we changing the criteria for Louis, when he in fact did knock the opponent in question out both times, when Wlad did not?

Mate the problem here is (I don't agree with weltz btw) that Wlad is never mentioned as a top ATG p4p or top 1-2 heavyweight, Louis is, so the criteria by which he is judged must be more stringent. You wouldn't compare a premiership footballer with a bunch of kids playing 5-a-side over the park.

[Banderivets]

Not only is there absolutely no proof of your assertions regarding size....there is much proof to the contrary. Have you seen a picture of Prima Canera for example? he was hardly the uncoordinated lumox you characterize big men as of that time. People like you and Weltz*** perpetrate these ideas with absolutely no sense of looking at the data. Furthermore, people who actually saw guys fight across generations have weighed in on these points and seem to disagree with your assertion.

Just off the top of my head we have people like James Toney fighting the big hard men of today and seeming to do ok despite his build, his size and what-not. Chris Byrd was not totally outclassed because of his size either...And this is at a cursory glance! You see how ridiculous these assertions are? They have been proven patently wrong!

Are you serious? Are we watching the same videos? What data? I'm looking at the videos.

And I'm sorry, today is today, I can make my own assertions from the footage I don't need Bert Sugar to tell me how great the old timers where when I have the "data" right in front of me.

This argument has been beat to death, and it doesn't even concern the giants of the era, it was many of the pre Louis gen fighters who by today's standards where not on the same skill level. They might have been harder then any fighter today in terms of mental and physical punishment that they were able to sustain, but their skills lacked by today's standards.

I just rewatched Primo Vs Baer, I'm sorry the skill level in that fight is that of guys outside today's TOP20.

Primo is as stiff as I asserted unless you have some other footage of him I have never seen. He is still, slow and you can see his punches coming from a mile, he has zero snap on his shots.

Man Shannon Briggs will wipe the floor with him, sorry that's the reality.

I see more skill in more skill in Friday Night Fights HW bouts then most of these epic battles of old (pre 1940)

[New England]

Cry me a river. All losses count. Louis was similar age as Vlad is TODAY when Marciano knocked him out of the ring. Not a very ATG like way going out.

"cry me a river."

"all losses count."

"37 years old is the same for every fighter."


compelling arguments.

keep digging. here's a shovel.

[LacedUp]

Mate the problem here is (I don't agree with weltz btw) that Wlad is never mentioned as a top ATG p4p or top 1-2 heavyweight, Louis is, so the criteria by which he is judged must be more stringent. You wouldn't compare a premiership footballer with a bunch of kids playing 5-a-side over the park.

Weltschermz said Wlad over Louis just a few pages ago and cited Louis' losses for reasons, hence why bring it up.

But I do like your very accurate comparison.

[Weltschmerz]

"cry me a river."

"all losses count."

"37 years old is the same for every fighter."


compelling arguments.

keep digging. here's a shovel.

Obviously your heroes of the past couldn't even carry Vladimir's spit bucket.

[Ray Corso]

No reasons to carry on with these children, when you have life long career
boxing people who consider Louis or Ali the best heavy's ever these kids still keep crying about the Klitz bros.
They degrade other competitors and then attack posters who differ from their opinions. If someone thinks that Wlad is the best since sliced bread that's ok by me just don't degrade someone else, it shows your immaturity and lack of
intelligence.
Its the same ol' crap that these kids keep yaking about its as if they have dementia.

[LacedUp]

Vladimir wasn't floored by several bums during his career, and Vladimir has never been knocked out cold. Vladimir's defeats came vs tough, durable opposition, and hard, hard punchers, especially Sanders, a guy who even had the iron chinned Vitali running and holding for dear life in the early rounds of their fight. Vladimir wasn't rocked by a 175 pound man either.

Yes he was.

[New England]

Obviously your heroes of the past couldn't even carry Vladimir's spit bucket.

joe louis can't knock out a fighter who was stopped by lamon brewster?


why?


i've already proven that the answer isn't "size."