Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[Weltschmerz]

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

[daggum]

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

better than wlad yes. he also beat sanders who destroyed glas klitschko

[IronDanHamza]

There's nothing to agree or disagree about. It would be pointless to have a HOF if everyone that held a belt or had one or two OK wins got inducted.

And he's not going to get in anyway.

[LacedUp]

Frazier's opponents after beating Ali in their first fight were far from impressive (excluding his other fights with Ali and Foreman). Frazier literally avoided strong opponents at the time like Lyle, Shavers, Norton. Frazier ducked some big punchers of his era.

In reality folks, he instead fought bums lets be honest, before Foreman dismantles him in brutal fashion. The rest of the story from there on we know.

Szef99 has a valid question in other words. His career standout win over a post-prime Ali is what he's got on his resume that truly matters if you guys wanna talk hard facts.

Please don't involve yourself in discussion of which you have no clue. You expose your lack of knowledge in the field.

Frazier's time was before Ali got back - The notion that he ducked anyone is insane and not true at all. Lyle and Norton were not in the frame to fight Frazier at any time and Norton shared the same trainer as himself - so that fight would never happen.

If Frazier fought bums, what does that make Wlad's competition?

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

Purrity, Brewster and Sanders all knocked Wlad spark out. Just think about that when you talk about Frazier's losses to two top 5 heavies of all times.

Once again, not true. Quarry, Ellis, Foster, Bonavena, Mathis, Ali, Chuvalo were all top fighters for their time, and unlike Wlad - Frazier actually beat the legitimate #1 contenders.

[The Hammer]

The fact is Frazier didn't really beat the best of his era (excluding Ali), one thing you usually base agt criteria on (I mean beating the best of your era). Add to that that Ali beat Frazier twice, Foreman too. Hasim Rahman beat Lennox Lewis, does it make him atg?

Good point. Hasim Rahman isn't an ATG and neither is Oliver McCall.

[Weltschmerz]

Please don't involve yourself in discussion of which you have no clue. You expose your lack of knowledge in the field.

Frazier's time was before Ali got back - The notion that he ducked anyone is insane and not true at all. Lyle and Norton were not in the frame to fight Frazier at any time and Norton shared the same trainer as himself - so that fight would never happen.

If Frazier fought bums, what does that make Wlad's competition?



Purrity, Brewster and Sanders all knocked Wlad spark out. Just think about that when you talk about Frazier's losses to two top 5 heavies of all times.

Once again, not true. Quarry, Ellis, Foster, Bonavena, Mathis, Ali, Chuvalo were all top fighters for their time, and unlike Wlad - Frazier actually beat the legitimate #1 contenders.

Why do you talk about Wladimir all the time, this thread is about Frazier. You got some agenda going on?

If you'd like me to repeat, Frazier doesn't have wins over his best contemporaries of the time.

[LacedUp]

Why do you talk about Wladimir all the time, this thread is about Frazier. You got some agenda going on?

If you'd like me to repeat, Frazier doesn't have wins over his best contemporaries of the time.

It's very simple. You claim Wlad is the greatest of all times or close to it. I'm pointing out your double standards that are ridiculous and expose you as a simple nuthugger that has no idea about boxing history.

When you start talking about lyle, norton and shavers - it is painfully obvious that you are just in this thread to troll.

Repeat it all you want, it makes you look more ignorant every time. He clearly does have wins over the best fighters of his time, saying anything else is idiotic.

But you know who doesn't have a win over the best contempary of his time? Wladimir Klitschko

[BigAlexSand]

Why do you talk about Wladimir all the time, this thread is about Frazier. You got some agenda going on?

If you'd like me to repeat, Frazier doesn't have wins over his best contemporaries of the time.

The fact you say he didn't beat Ali... is down right disrespectful! The FACT IS Frazier the one man who could say he beat a prime Ali. In fact the two of them both were willing two die in their 3rd fight, both have claimed they almost did. Frazier beat many #1 contenders and was a feared man with the heart of a f***ING lion. Wlad hasn't fought an opponent like Ali, nor Frazier.

Wlad is a great heavyweight of this era. But sadly Wlad isn't as great as the greats of the past.... Period!

[LacedUp]

The fact you say he didn't beat Ali... is down right disrespectful! The FACT IS Frazier the one man who could say he beat a prime Ali. In fact the two of them both were willing two die in their 3rd fight, both have claimed they almost did. Frazier beat many #1 contenders and was a feared man with the heart of a f***ING lion. Wlad hasn't fought an opponent like Ali, nor Frazier.

Wlad is a great heavyweight of this era. But sadly Wlad isn't as great as the greats of the past.... Period!

Don't take him seriously.

His only objective is to make Wlad/Vitali look good.

[Weltschmerz]

The fact you say he didn't beat Ali... is down right disrespectful! The FACT IS Frazier the one man who could say he beat a prime Ali. In fact the two of them both were willing two die in their 3rd fight, both have claimed they almost did. Frazier beat many #1 contenders and was a feared man with the heart of a f***ING lion. Wlad hasn't fought an opponent like Ali, nor Frazier.

Wlad is a great heavyweight of this era. But sadly Wlad isn't as great as the greats of the past.... Period!

Actually I previously in this thread pointed out clearly that Frazier beat Ali in their first fight. But Ali was already post prime in '71, how atg like is that? Also, if you'd read into boxing history, you'd know that 'thrilla in Manila' was rigged as hell and staged.