Is Joe Frazier really an ATG?

[LacedUp]

Actually I previously in this thread pointed out clearly that Frazier beat Ali in their first fight. But Ali was already post prime in '71, how atg like is that? Also, if you'd read into boxing history, you'd know that 'thrilla in Manila' was rigged as hell and staged.

Did Ali's greatest achievements come before or after 71 if I may ask? Surely, he wasn't as fluent as he was in the 60s, but I don't think it's right to discredit the win seeing as Ali's best wins arguably came after he fought Frazier the first time.

[Weltschmerz]

Did Ali's greatest achievements come before or after 71 if I may ask? Surely, he wasn't as fluent as he was in the 60s, but I don't think it's right to discredit the win seeing as Ali's best wins arguably came after he fought Frazier the first time.

Well I'm talking prime level Ali boxing wise, not ring achievement wise. Which then leads back to Frazier in this context of the thread subject matter. Not discrediting Frazier's victory over Ali, btw, since it was the highlight reel of his otherwise mediocre career.

[LacedUp]

Well I'm talking prime level Ali boxing wise, not ring achievement wise. Which then leads back to Frazier in this context of the thread subject matter. Not discrediting Frazier's victory over Ali, btw, since it was the highlight reel of his otherwise mediocre career.

You can't be serious with this.

And it's coming from a man who says Vitali Klitschko is one of the greatest hws of all times.

[Weltschmerz]

This thread belongs in the History Section, so I don't have to talk to clueless turds like LacedUp.

[LacedUp]

This thread belongs in the History Section, so I don't have to talk to clueless turds like LacedUp.

Yes, out of the two of us, I'm the 'clueless turd'

[Weltschmerz]

Yes, out of the two of us, I'm the 'clueless turd'

Btw, why did you get banned last? Mods didn't fancy your latest tattoo?

[Rome-By-Ko]

What in the hell am I seeing here..Is this a serious thread??

[Capaedia]

Frazier's opponents after beating Ali in their first fight were far from impressive (excluding his other fights with Ali and Foreman). Frazier literally avoided strong opponents at the time like Lyle, Shavers, Norton. Frazier ducked some big punchers of his era.

Frazier beat the best fighters of his actual era bar Foreman.

Ali
Chuvalo
Bonavena x2
Machen
Quarry x2
Bugner
Ellis

The ones you listed peaked while he was shot, and were on the way up while he was busy fighting better fighters (their conquerors namely)

Shavers was knocked out by Ron Stander (who was regarded better at the time so Joe knocked him out instead as a title defense. Shavers only ended up accomplishing something after this fight. He was then immediately ktfo in one round by Jerry Quarry

Same thing for Lyle. Lyle was outboxed by Quarry. Quarry then knocked out Shavers. Quarry was then KO'd by Joe (again)

Ali lost to then beat Norton in an immediate rematch, Frazier fought Ali, also rematched Foreman who had knocked Norton out by that point.

Frazier goes on to fight the biggest puncher and the two best fighters of the lot.

In reality folks, he instead fought bums lets be honest, before Foreman dismantles him in brutal fashion. The rest of the story from there on we know.

Fresh off the war of a lifetime against a horrible stylistic matchup. Against arguably the biggest puncher of all time. An ATG heavy.

His career standout win over a post-prime Ali is

Is the best title defense in history and the greatest victory in HW history.

That was the best Ali that ever lost. Probably the best performance ever by a losing heavyweight.


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[LacedUp]

bump tikka bump bump

[GeneralZod]

Frazier beat the best fighters of his actual era bar Foreman.

Ali
Chuvalo
Bonavena x2
Machen
Quarry x2
Bugner
Ellis

The ones you listed peaked while he was shot, and were on the way up while he was busy fighting better fighters (their conquerors namely)

Shavers was knocked out by Ron Stander (who was regarded better at the time so Joe knocked him out instead as a title defense. Shavers only ended up accomplishing something after this fight. He was then immediately ktfo in one round by Jerry Quarry

Same thing for Lyle. Lyle was outboxed by Quarry. Quarry then knocked out Shavers. Quarry was then KO'd by Joe (again)

Ali lost to then beat Norton in an immediate rematch, Frazier fought Ali, also rematched Foreman who had knocked Norton out by that point.

Frazier goes on to fight the biggest puncher and the two best fighters of the lot.



Fresh off the war of a lifetime against a horrible stylistic matchup. Against arguably the biggest puncher of all time. An ATG heavy.



Is the best title defense in history and the greatest victory in HW history.

That was the best Ali that ever lost. Probably the best performance ever by a losing heavyweight.


Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

Not to mention Norton and Frazier were good friends, fight would've never happened, and i'm taking the assumption he doesn't discredit either K Bro for not taking each other on. (Even if it would give us something to give a sht about in the heavyweight division.)