Marquez knocked out Pacquiao. Is he greater than Pacquiao?

[Elotero]

I don't agree with 9-3 at all. I think it was like JMM by 1 point f that KD is scored and the deduction doesn't happen.

Going life and death with Kats is not a great result. It was a great fight, but that's different, As I said, Kats has never even managed to win a belt.

Mosley went up in weight and went 12 with Canelo and never got dropped. You think Casa could do similar? He got stopped by Tim Bradley, and never had a decent win again, not even Cano decent.

Gassing vs Floyd after just giving him the scare of his life is way better than being embarrassed by Santa Cruz, right?

Next thing you'll be spouting is that Britney Spears makes the best music because she has sold the most records. GTFO

[crold1]

Gotcha. So as you can see, JMM's best non Pac win (old MAB circa Pac 2) is borderline top 10 for Pac. And that same Marg rolls over JMM's next top 3 wins in under 12 rounds.

Juan Diaz is a better win at Lightweight than Marg at 150 IMO. Again, JMM-MAB rates with other wins for Pac; that MAB JMM fought was still better than Hatton or Saskul IMO. How I rate a win also takes into account its historical value and how Pac won.

[-MAKAVELLI-]

that's like saying Tarver is better than Roy

[crold1]

I don't agree with 9-3 at all. I think it was like JMM by 1 point f that KD is scored and the deduction doesn't happen.

Going life and death with Kats is not a great result. It was a great fight, but that's different, As I said, Kats has never even managed to win a belt.

Mosley went up in weight and went 12 with Canelo and never got dropped. You think Casa could do similar? He got stopped by Tim Bradley, and never had a decent win again, not even Cano decent.

Gassing vs Floyd after just giving him the scare of his life is way better than being embarrassed by Santa Cruz, right?

Kats never won a belt because there were some really good fighters in his way. he wasn't an easy night for any of them. JMM included. Casa not being able to to stand in front of Canelo and play a punching bag at Jr. Middle is relevant how? Casa was a Lightweight. He was better, at Lightweight against JMM, then Mosley was in the fights you're citing at Welter and Jr. Middle (divisions Mosley has fought in for a decade). And yes, gassing against Floyd is better than the JSC fight. It's not better than Katsidis. Neither is Mora. Not even on the same planet.

[HeroBando]

Juan Diaz is a better win at Lightweight than Marg at 150 IMO. Again, JMM-MAB rates with other wins for Pac; that MAB JMM fought was still better than Hatton or Saskul IMO. How I rate a win also takes into account its historical value and how Pac won.

But you didn't have MAB 2 in your Pac top 10, so how can JMM's MAB be a better win than Hatton? It was 6 months earlier, and it was a major struggle for well favored JMM. You just said the manner of win counts.

I agree Diaz was better p4p, but h2h also counts and h2h that Marg absolutely murders Juan Diaz.

[crold1]

that's like saying Tarver is better than Roy

Not quite. JMM was very good in three divisions, and beat Pac at Welter when most saw Pac as 1A in the division at worst. Tarver had a very good, underrated run at Light Heavy. Not historically comparable IMO.

[crold1]

But you didn't have MAB 2 in your Pac top 10, so how can JMM's MAB be a better win than Hatton? It was 6 months earlier, and it was a major struggle for well favored JMM. You just said the manner of win counts.

I agree Diaz was better p4p, but h2h also counts and h2h that Marg absolutely murders Juan Diaz.

Because MAB was, at that point, still a better fighter than Hatton in general. Hatton is a great win for Pac because of HOW he beat him and what he accomplished (fourth lineal title). At the very least, it the equal of several of Pac's best wins.

[HeroBando]

Kats never won a belt because there were some really good fighters in his way. he wasn't an easy night for any of them. JMM included. Casa not being able to to stand in front of Canelo and play a punching bag at Jr. Middle is relevant how? Casa was a Lightweight. He was better, at Lightweight against JMM, then Mosley was in the fights you're citing at Welter and Jr. Middle (divisions Mosley has fought in for a decade). And yes, gassing against Floyd is better than the JSC fight. It's not better than Katsidis. Neither is Mora. Not even on the same planet.

I didn't mean vs Canelo, that's why I said "similar". Meaning go up and fight a big, good punching top JWW. He couldn't even do it vs Bradley.

I like Kats, but he was a David Diaz caliber battler. He can't throw a right hand.

Sometimes these washed up greats can turn back the clock, for example Morales Maidana, or several of JMM's opponents.

[HeroBando]

Because MAB was, at that point, still a better fighter than Hatton in general. Hatton is a great win for Pac because of HOW he beat him and what he accomplished (fourth lineal title). At the very least, it the equal of several of Pac's best wins.

Hmm I'm surprised you think old MAB was still better than LWW Champ Hatton at that point. I kinda doubt it.

[HeroBando]

Not quite. JMM was very good in three divisions, and beat Pac at Welter when most saw Pac as 1A in the division at worst. Tarver had a very good, underrated run at Light Heavy. Not historically comparable IMO.

When you have to barter over the other guy's second best win fitting into the other guy's top 10, it's pretty similar