Vitali's mythical poor resume pt 2

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

It's funny and contradictory if you look at my previous posts that you bring up fat slobs fighting out of the US as example, in this way trying to glorify past eras. The past eras before the 1990's wer only lucky that all of the exceptionally gifted and well trained fighters from the Soviet block weren't able to compete professionally outside the Iron Curtain until after 1990. Ali and the likes were lucky fighting mostly ridiculously overrated American tomato cans and what not.

Today, as a result of 'free market', we see Europe dominating HW boxing, and it looks like it will stay this way. Professional, top conditioned fighters, a new breed.

+1. You can't compare American fighter with Eastern European fighters when it comes to physical and mental toughness. It's true that the Sovietic sense of strict discipline ( and I am not a friend of the Soviet Union at all for those who'll try to point out a political bias) contributed a lot to the emergence of Eastern European fighters.

However I don't think that this will last forever.

[LacedUp]

+1. You can't compare American fighter with Eastern European fighters when it comes to physical and mental toughness. It's true that the Sovietic sense of strict discipline ( and I am not a friend of the Soviet Union at all for those who'll try to point out a political bias) contributed a lot to the emergence of Eastern European fighters.

However I don't think that this will last forever.

Why are you replying to your own posts?

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

The top ten Ring rankings that some people are misleadingly giving their postings in that Vitali thread are the BoxRec YEAR-END rankings.

Some of the fighters some of you SAY were not in the top ten when Vitali fought them actually were in the top ten the week he fought them, although not at the end of that year (after he beat them).

For example, Odlanier Solis was in the top ten the week he fought Vitali:

http://boxrank.org/2011/03/16/heavyw...011-mar-14-20/

Doghouse boxing.com and saddo boxing.com have a lot of the week-by-week Ring rankings, for example when some say Peter and Brock were not in the Ring top ten when Wladimir fought them in 2005 and 2006 :

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ring/Ring091505.htm

http://www.***********.com/3607-boxi...html#more-3607

[LacedUp]

The top ten Ring rankings that some people are misleadingly giving their postings in that Vitali thread are the BoxRec YEAR-END rankings.

Some of the fighters some of you SAY were not in the top ten when Vitali fought them actually were in the top ten the week he fought them, although not at the end of that year (after he beat them).

For example, Odlanier Solis was in the top ten the week he fought Vitali:

http://boxrank.org/2011/03/16/heavyw...011-mar-14-20/

Doghouse boxing.com and saddo boxing.com have a lot of the week-by-week Ring rankings, for example when some say Peter and Brock were not in the Ring top ten when Wladimir fought them in 2005 and 2006 :

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ring/Ring091505.htm

http://www.***********.com/3607-boxi...html#more-3607

It's about whether or not they were included on their basis of their last fight. Any idiot with a ******ed brain still knows fighters get elevated into a higher position once the fight has been scheduled.

Doesn't change the fact that Vitali has 6 top 10 wins on his record. Hardly ATG material.

[crold1]

+1. You can't compare American fighter with Eastern European fighters when it comes to physical and mental toughness. It's true that the Sovietic sense of strict discipline ( and I am not a friend of the Soviet Union at all for those who'll try to point out a political bias) contributed a lot to the emergence of Eastern European fighters.

However I don't think that this will last forever.

American Heavyweights fought "great" Eastern European fighters all the time...at the Olympics. The US or Cuba won every Gold Medal at Heavyweight from 1952-2008. Super Heavyweight starts at the 1984 Games with Gold Medals in multiple countries. And that was with the US sending guys between the ages of 17-21 typically. Our kids were beating Eastern bloc men. The emergence of strength in the pro ranks in places like Ukraine runs in parallel to improvement of their amateur programs.

In other words, there is no indication we were missing anything 40 years ago. The Golden Age of Eastern bloc Heavyweights is right now.

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

American Heavyweights fought "great" Eastern European fighters all the time...at the Olympics. The US or Cuba won every Gold Medal at Heavyweight from 1952-2008. Super Heavyweight starts at the 1984 Games with Gold Medals in multiple countries. The emergence of strength in the pro ranks in places like Ukraine runs in parallel to improvement of their amateur programs.

In other words, there is no indication we were missing anything 40 years ago. The Golden Age of Eastern bloc Heavyweights is right now.

Wladimir Klitschko --> 1996

Alexander Povetkin --> 2004

Fine, the Soviet Union ws taking part in the Olympics but can we really compare amateur boxing to professional boxing. I mean look at Audley Harrison...

[damuttz112]

If Wlad won the gold medal in 1996 how come he never faced Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson etc.

[crold1]

If Wlad won the gold medal in 1996 how come he never faced Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson etc.

Wlad was being groomed for Lewis and lost to Sanders. The Purrity setback also moved his timetable back.

Byrd set Vitali back in terms of US TV (he turned pro the same time) but he also had, I would opine, a Kohl problem. There were a lot of fine fighters who got stuck in a rut in the German market under Kohl that could have made a bigger splash globally. When he and Wlad shook loose, it was better.

Wlad was always a little tougher matched of the two, and typically still is, but it might have been different for Vitali if Byrd had gone differently on HBO.

[crold1]

Wladimir Klitschko --> 1996

Alexander Povetkin --> 2004

Fine, the Soviet Union ws taking part in the Olympics but can we really compare amateur boxing to professional boxing. I mean look at Audley Harrison...

It's never a perfect slide from ammy to pro BUT look at the two guys you mention (sort of making my point). When former Soviet States started to dominate the amateurs at Heavy and Super, they started to dominate the pros at Heavy and produce some solid guys at Cruiser.

America got Ali (at Light Heavy, grew into Heavy shortly after), Foreman, and Frazier out of the Olympic ranks. Their pro success speaks for itself. Tate won a belt and a medal. Biggs was a title challenger but he ran into Tyson (who should have been the American at the mitigated 84 Games). Holyfield, growing out of Light Heavy, became a great Heavyweight. Lewis, out of Canada, was a Gold Medalist at Super. Mercer was a perennial contender out of the same Games.

Point being, there is a correlation between the two levels if not an exact exchange. The talent swing favored the America(s) for a long time. Now that the pendulum is swung, we are seeing the professional parallel. It's not exact (Cammarelle ain't likely to win any pro crowns), but it's significant.

It's one of the angles I like about Wlad-Povetkin. Really looking forward to that fight. I think it has a chance to be a really good scrap based on styles and pedigree if Povetkin gets into his best shape. We know Wlad will show up tip top. He always does.

[damuttz112]

How good is Sasha's inside game? Can he hurt Wlad there?