Vitali's mythical poor resume pt 2

[Jack Napier]

don't understand all the whining about Vit's resume
he's beaten who he needed to, sans Lewis and Byrd
those can't count for his res, but it doesn't count against it
at least the Lewis one doesn't, Byrd does since Vit quit
but he's whipped everybody else he's faced, albeit B fighters
Wlad's on top and Vit's letting him enjoy the spotlight
his problem is he gets compared unfavorably to his brother
he should, since Wlad's res is better, but Vit's isn't bad
he's taken down some decent to good fighters, Adamek being his best
his resume isn't great, but it's good

[crold1]

How good is Sasha's inside game? Can he hurt Wlad there?

It's hard to say. He's no knockout artist but he isn't feather fisted either. When he comes in sharp, he's got quicker hands and feet than he gets credit for. He puts punches together inside better than just about anyone else in the pros right now. Arreola isn't a bad inside fighter but he still throws an off balance overhand right. Povetkin has a better base.

It's less an issue of whether he can hurt him and more an issue of can he get there and does he think he can. My reservations on the fight stem from Povetkin seeming to kill a LOT of time avoiding it. He's been a pro going on eight years. That's a LONG development curve.

Wlad has flaws, but they've been awful hard to exploit since he slowed down his offensive output, become more economical, tied up more, and lived off his jab. Wlad's jab is a cracker; one of the best in heavyweight history. His right hand is up there with the best too. His weakness, and there haven't been any good pressure fighters to exploit it in a long time, is he can't really counter punch.

Then again, he hasn't had to. we'll see if Sasha can make him uncomfortable.

[crold1]

don't understand all the whining about Vit's resume
he's beaten who he needed to, sans Lewis and Byrd
those can't count for his res, but it doesn't count against it
at least the Lewis one doesn't, Byrd does since Vit quit
but he's whipped everybody else he's faced, albeit B fighters
Wlad's on top and Vit's letting him enjoy the spotlight
his problem is he gets compared unfavorably to his brother
he should, since Wlad's res is better, but Vit's isn't bad
he's taken down some decent to good fighters, Adamek being his best
his resume isn't great, but it's good

Where his resume lacks, he can point to longevity and professionalism of the highest order. It ain't easy to stay focused and in condition the way the K's do. They have an admirable work ethic. I think, comparing peaks, Wlad has not only been the more accomplished but better fighter. In a vacuum where they weren't brothers, I think the best Wlad beats the best Vitali.

I think some people get annoyed when Vitali gets mentioned with the ATG heavies because he hasn't done the things, in his era, that would have better define his tenure. Wlad, for the most part, has. I think Wlad will ultimately be rated with the elites of the class. Placement will be where the debate rages.

Vitali, based on what is good in his career and the simple matchup issues, will rate probably top 25 (which is still awesome) but he will be more a hypothetical than proven great. His injury layoff killed his chance to dominate the division in the same way Wlad did and his basically being benched from serious comp from Byrd to Lewis hurts too. Not all his fault, but it happened.

[Counter Troll]

+1.
You can't compare American fighter with Eastern European fighters when it comes to physical and mental toughness. It's true that the Sovietic sense of strict discipline ( and I am not a friend of the Soviet Union at all for those who'll try to point out a political bias) contributed a lot to the emergence of Eastern European fighters.

However I don't think that this will last forever.

Agreed.

It would be utterly asinine to compare a country which produced the likes of Hagler, Ali, Marciano, Frazier, Foreman, Lamotta, SRR etc. etc. etc. With a region of the world which is notoriously rife with glass hearts, glass jaws, glass mentality's etc.

There almost hasn't been a top level Eastern European boxer that has NOT shown a degree of mental frailty at some point in their career(s). And that's actually from top to bottom. From the Tsyzu's & Michalewski's...all the way down to the Dimentrenko's & Senchenko's.

[bojangles1987]

don't understand all the whining about Vit's resume
he's beaten who he needed to, sans Lewis and Byrd
those can't count for his res, but it doesn't count against it
at least the Lewis one doesn't, Byrd does since Vit quit
but he's whipped everybody else he's faced, albeit B fighters
Wlad's on top and Vit's letting him enjoy the spotlight
his problem is he gets compared unfavorably to his brother
he should, since Wlad's res is better, but Vit's isn't bad
he's taken down some decent to good fighters, Adamek being his best
his resume isn't great, but it's good

It would be fine if people just called him a good fighter. The problem is when the insane posters around here call him a top 20 ATG heavyweight and try to pretend he belongs right beside his brother. It's absolutely ridiculous.

[Counter Troll]

If Wlad won the gold medal in 1996 how come he never faced Lennox Lewis, Evander Holyfield, Mike Tyson etc.

He could barely even compete with the journeymen/clubfighters from the 90's... and you want him to step into the ring with ATG's?

[crold1]

It would be fine if people just called him a good fighter. The problem is when the insane posters around here call him a top 20 ATG heavyweight and try to pretend he belongs right beside his brother. It's absolutely ridiculous.

I can see a case for top 20-25 when one figures guys like Corbett, Fitzsimmons, Tunney, Charles, Walcott, and Langford also figure prominently in those type of ratings. I know, those guys beat better fighters (well, at Heavy, Tunney really didn't unless we want to go overboard on beating a Dempsey who hadn't had areal fight for three years). But it's impossible to ignore the matchup issue. I think there are guys who were smaller who had the skill set to go through the K's. Louis predominantly (talking pre-Liston).

Again, on those grounds I see a case. I also see the argument that those men did more relative to their field. I lean towards more literal approaches to Heavyweight. When people say the Klits win "because of size" a) it's not really true or most of the other "Super" Heavyweights wouldn't be as mediocre as they are and b) it's Heavyweight. Size is part of the point.

[Counter Troll]

Wlad was being groomed for Lewis and lost to Sanders. The Purrity setback also moved his timetable back.

Byrd set Vitali back in terms of US TV (he turned pro the same time) but he also had, I would opine, a Kohl problem. There were a lot of fine fighters who got stuck in a rut in the German market under Kohl that could have made a bigger splash globally. When he and Wlad shook loose, it was better.

Wlad was always a little tougher matched of the two, and typically still is, but it might have been different for Vitali if Byrd had gone differently on HBO.

In other words, the large gaping holes in their resume(s) are primarly due to their own inadequacies? They just couldn't dominate when it actually mattered... when they were competing in a much deeper & tougher era.

[damuttz112]

He could barely even compete with the journeymen/clubfighters from the 90's... and you want him to step into the ring with ATG's?

Lennox won the WBC only four years into his career.

[LacedUp]

It would be fine if people just called him a good fighter. The problem is when the insane posters around here call him a top 20 ATG heavyweight and try to pretend he belongs right beside his brother. It's absolutely ridiculous.

This is pretty much it.

I mean, what is Vitali's best win anyway? An out of shape Corrie Sanders or Sam Peter who struggled with James Toney and James McCline?

How can that be ATG material? But of course, there needs to be ground for what the limit is. Because I think Vitali is a top 30 heavyweight for sure. But just not top 15-20 as I really count as ATG.