Vitali's mythical poor resume pt 2

[Boxing Goat]

I see. Thanks.

There's also the Jones-Ruiz fight. That should cover an eventual remaining spot of Johnson's downfall that hasn't been covered. (Unless the f up the cover dates and real dates.)

Looks like he was no. 11. lol

It doesn't matter, he was in the top ten at one point or another which is what I said in the 1st place, as was all of the others I mentioned with maybe the exception of Hide.

It's not like Johnson forgot how to fight between that ranking and when he fought Klitschko. Vitali destroyed him and proved he belonged.

Edit: Belonged, meaning to be 'the man' in the division.

[crold1]

It doesn't matter, he was in the top ten at one point or another which is what I said in the 1st place, as was all of the others I mentioned with maybe the exception of Hide.

It's not like Johnson forgot how to fight between that ranking and when he fought Klitschko. Vitali destroyed him and proved he belonged.

Johnson didn't forget how to fight. He forgot to train.

When you win a fight matters. Hide had been in the top ten years earlier and was promptly run out. He did nothing of note after that. When matters. If just having been top ten at some point mattered that much, Ali would be Larry Holmes' greatest win.

Vitali proved he belonged in the Lewis fight. If that was only enough to get him to 4 before Johnson, harpooning a 260 lb. whale size version of the in-shape only average Johnson doesn't make any sense as a fight to elevate to #1.

[Boxing Goat]

Yes. I can see Arreola beating Wepner but Ali's resume is not based on Wepner, Leon Spinks, and Joe Bugner. He faced, and beat, some pretty damn good fighters. Need I mention them? Liston. Patterson. Frazier. Foreman. and his second tier fighters were also pretty good (Norton, Cleveland Williams, Ernie Terrell, among others)

I don't disparage either VK or WK but they have the misfortune of fighting in a poor era.

Ali also lost to a few of them too including a 6-0-1 fighter when he was still 36 years old. I can go in there and critique every fighter you mentioned just like anyone would do Klitschko's opponents but can you imagine how hard the haters on here would come down on Wladimir if he was to lose to a 6-0-1 fighter even now at 37 years old? It would be insane.

Vitali only really missed the opportunity to face Haye, Rahman, Valuev and Tyson and it wasn't because he didn't want and/or try to make those fights.

The rest just didn't matter.

[JAB5239]

Well of course it is. 'Who beat who', right? It's all about rankings, as if anyone gives a **** about rankings. You can't throw a comparison up like that and claim it to be factual basis for your wicked argument that past eras were so superior. Today's technology and sports science has improved fighters and will continue to do so. Athletes are faster, stronger, and more skilled today.

Heavyweights hardly move their heads, seldom body punch, rarely feint or slip punches and are sucking wind by the midway point of a fight after throwing very few punches. Heavyweights have declined horribly!

[JAB5239]

The careful matchmaking and timing you're mentioning is part and parcel of today's politicized game. It's business and marketing, promotion, sanctioning bodies etc. That's why the best don't fight the best all the time anymore. I disagree that athletes are lazy (there are exceptions of course, as there always was). The new crop of Eastern European hws for example are all dedicated top athletes.

Yeas, like Wach juicing and loading his gloves, or Povetkin coming in unprepared against huck. Nice call, moron. But that's what you get for exposing your nationalistic agenda!

[JAB5239]

Also not true. And now you are just piggybacking of someone else's statements, because you couldn't even mention 3 light fighters pre 2000 that were below 200 pounds.

Today though, you have Haye, Byrd, Chambers, Cunningham, Huck, Mormeck, Adamek, Gomes etc etc who have all moved up or down from lower weight classes.

Just shows once again, how little you know.

Lol, destroying weinerschnitz with facts again!

[JAB5239]

Ali also lost to a few of them too including a 6-0-1 fighter when he was still 36 years old. I can go in there and critique every fighter you mentioned just like anyone would do Klitschko's opponents but can you imagine how hard the haters on here would come down on Wladimir if he was to lose to a 6-0-1 fighter even now at 37 years old? It would be insane.

Vitali only really missed the opportunity to face Haye, Rahman, Valuev and Tyson and it wasn't because he didn't want and/or try to make those fights.

The rest just didn't matter.

Why exactly didn't the rest matter, because little bro beat them?

[bklynboy]

Ali also lost to a few of them too including a 6-0-1 fighter when he was still 36 years old. I can go in there and critique every fighter you mentioned just like anyone would do Klitschko's opponents but can you imagine how hard the haters on here would come down on Wladimir if he was to lose to a 6-0-1 fighter even now at 37 years old? It would be insane.

Vitali only really missed the opportunity to face Haye, Rahman, Valuev and Tyson and it wasn't because he didn't want and/or try to make those fights.

The rest just didn't matter.

People age differently and styles are different. Ali was not as good in his middle to late 30s as VK was or WK is. I suppose we can debate the question "Is a 35+ year old VK a better fighter than a 35+ year old Muhammad Ali?" But, as interesting as that debate may be, it has little relevancy to comparing the careers of Ali and VK.

Ali fought and beat tremendous fighters. VK did not. It may or may not be VK's fault. But there it is.

Re Ali losing to a 6-0-1 fighter. Yeah that's like Donaire losing to an 11-0 fighter. (Ok. Rigondeaux is much better than Leon Spinx but still it's not as if Spinks was a bum. )

And, again - we look at the totality of a career. Ali from Liston to Foreman had a monster career.

The rest just didn't matter.

The sum total of the career matters. Ali's is phenominal. VK's resume is not strong at all.

[crold1]

People age differently and styles are different. Ali was not as good in his middle to late 30s as VK was or WK is. I suppose we can debate the question "Is a 35+ year old VK a better fighter than a 35+ year old Muhammad Ali?" But, as interesting as that debate may be, it has little relevancy to comparing the careers of Ali and VK.

Ali fought and beat tremendous fighters. VK did not. It may or may not be VK's fault. But there it is.

Re Ali losing to a 6-0-1 fighter. Yeah that's like Donaire losing to an 11-0 fighter. (Ok. Rigondeaux is much better than Leon Spinx but still it's not as if Spinks was a bum. )

And, again - we look at the totality of a career. Ali from Liston to Foreman had a monster career.

The rest just didn't matter.

The sum total of the career matters. Ali's is phenominal. VK's resume is not strong at all.

Liston to Frazier III you mean. Have to include the Lyle fight and Manila in there. Both great wins. Everything after Manila was just sort of there. His training and physical state were never the same. It's like looking at what Corrales and Castillo did after their first fight. They were both just sort of done.

[Boxing Goat]

People age differently and styles are different. Ali was not as good in his middle to late 30s as VK was or WK is. I suppose we can debate the question "Is a 35+ year old VK a better fighter than a 35+ year old Muhammad Ali?" But, as interesting as that debate may be, it has little relevancy to comparing the careers of Ali and VK.

Ali fought and beat tremendous fighters. VK did not. It may or may not be VK's fault. But there it is.

Re Ali losing to a 6-0-1 fighter. Yeah that's like Donaire losing to an 11-0 fighter. (Ok. Rigondeaux is much better than Leon Spinx but still it's not as if Spinks was a bum. )
And, again - we look at the totality of a career. Ali from Liston to Foreman had a monster career.

The rest just didn't matter.

The sum total of the career matters. Ali's is phenominal. VK's resume is not strong at all.

Lol, at comparing Spinx to GR, who is the greatest amateur of all time.
You should have left that one alone. Spinx was a joke and Ali lost to him at the same age that the Klitschko's are destroying the division.

I know full well that fighters age at different rates but that's like saying that Hopkins wins after 40 don't mean anything. (waiting for more bull**** about his competition)

That said, Vitali would have most likely had a better final record than Ali had he faced the same opposition over the same timeframe.

That may not be a fact, but it's most likely and knowing that, means something. Vitali has been fighting top ten fighters as I said several times before.

With him and his brother splitting opposition, that's all he can do.