Why is everyone so Adamant about not making Martinez P4P #1?

[BafanaBafana]

He won a hometown gift decision that he'd have likely have lost any where else on the Planet.

Oh really? What rounds did Murray win? No, BS please.
I've watched the fight multiple time and thought Sergio won rounds 1-4, 7, 10, and 12. Murray won 6, 8, and 10. and rounds 5 and 9 were 50/50. Murray didn't throw enough at the beginning and then went into survival mode the last two rounds; Sergio won the 7th, clearly.

[ИATAS]

When did I say Sergio's reign was better than Hopkins? Please remind me.
If anything I said Sergio's reign is underrated because it constantly get's compared and held to the standard of ATG middleweights' reigns (like Monzon's, Hagler's, and Hopkins' reign) and is not valued by it's own weight.

I asked a simple question what was the point of typing all that **** if you agree with me.

So I expose your BS that Hopkins dominated the middleweight reign for 10 years and this is your rebuttal? Apology accepted.

BS? So Hopkins was not dominant for a decade? I never said he was the lineal champ for a decade (u should apologize for putting words in my mouth).

Both fights were close, Hopkins could have arguably won the first fight and Taylor probably the second. Either way you can't call a close fight a robbery (something very common among Hopkins fans) and Taylor officially won both fights.

Did I use the word robbery? Also ignoring my point that bhop was 40 years old and obviously slowing down.

[IronDanHamza]

Oh really? What rounds did Murray win? No, BS please.
I've watched the fight multiple time and thought Sergio won rounds 1-4, 7, 10, and 12. Murray won 6, 8, and 10. and rounds 5 and 9 were 50/50. Murray didn't throw enough at the beginning and then went into survival mode the last two rounds; Sergio won the 7th, clearly.

Not sure of the top of my head but he was robbed of another knockdown and enough to win the fight.

Not a robbery but let's face it, anywhere else then Murray would have likely got the decision.

I don't know the rounds off the top of my head but I get the feeling that those rounds aren't as clear cut for Martinez as you're making out which is understandable as you're a big fan of Martinez.

[daggum]

Lol, he meant #2 GGG, the heir apparent.

martinez lost the #1 spot via forfeit. #1 is either golovking since he's next in the rankings or murray if you believe he beat martinez. martinez is a joke. not as big of a joke as bradley of course.

[Humean]

You post all this **** but do you disagree? Hopkins was far more dominant, for longer and had better wins than Martinez. Actually that's a fact not an opinion.

As for the IBF there were of course boxing politics that prevented Hopkins from unifying sooner, that's not his fault. He eventually beat every title holder and unified every single belt in the division.

As for Taylor, somehow you hold that against him? Hopkins probably should have got the win both times and let's not ignore the man was 40 years old.

A lot of those guys you mentioned, Echols, Allen, Glen Johnson, etc. were better fighters than Macklin, Barker, Murray & Williams. I'd take a prime Echols to beat Barker and undefeated Glen Johnson over Barker/Macklin/Murray for example. Tough guys that could fight, not domestic euro guys that only beat other domestic euro guys.

Barker officially beat Geale, has Australia moved to Europe? Anyway domestic American opponents are certainly not always better than so called domestic (can a continent be called domestic?) European opponents. Not that I disagree with the idea that Hopkins was better at middleweight than Martinez. Hopkins was the best middleweight since Hagler.

So I guess the IBF title is the legitimate lineal title now? Hopkins didn't unify any titles until 2001. Steve Frank, Joe Lipsey, William Bo James, Andrew Council, Syd Vanderpool are all ATG defenses right...? Then you have the truly elite level, the Antwun Echols', Morrade Hakkar's, Robert Allen's (trilogy), Carl Daniels' of the world.

I don't dispute that Hopkins has had the best middleweight reign since Hagler, but it does get a little bit overrated considering his best wins are Trinidad and DLH, two overblown welterweights (DLH could in a sense be considered an overblown 130 pounder lol). The also lost to the best opponents he faced at the weight: Roy Jones (near shutout), J. Taylor x 2.

Sergio Martinez's reign is a bit underrated, he's been the champ since 2010 and has had 6 defences (4KOs) and some decent fights at the weight, Pavlik, Williams x 2, Chavez Jr, Macklin, Murray, Barker (looks better now).

The two best middleweights of the very late 90s and early 00s not named Hopkins were Joppy and Holmes, both of whom Hopkins beat. Both were better than any of Martinez's middleweight opponents bar possibly Pavlik. Trinidad was a big and great Welterweight who brutalized Joppy when he moved up to middleweight. At middleweight Trinidad was clearly brilliant despite only having two fights there. I'd fancy Trinidad to have beaten Pavlik.

[BafanaBafana]

I asked a simple question what was the point of typing all that **** if you agree with me.

I could say the same about you. I was agreeing with you and you went on a ******ed rant.

BS? So Hopkins was not dominant for a decade? I never said he was the lineal champ for a decade (u should apologize for putting words in my mouth).

Look at the BS you posted:

This guy said most dominant MW since Jones, as if Hopkins didn't rule the division for a decade

You can't rule a division fighting bums, and that's what Hopkins was doing before 2001 (minus the schooling he got from Roy). When you say he ruled you're insinuating he's the lineal champ (like Sergio is right now), but he wasn't such until 2001. So like I said, EXPOSED.

Did I use the word robbery? Also ignoring my point that bhop was 40 years old and obviously slowing down.

Excuses...

[Boxing Goat]

Oh really? What rounds did Murray win? No, BS please.
I've watched the fight multiple time and thought Sergio won rounds 1-4, 7, 10, and 12. Murray won 6, 8, and 10. and rounds 5 and 9 were 50/50. Murray didn't throw enough at the beginning and then went into survival mode the last two rounds; Sergio won the 7th, clearly.

Even by what you are saying that if Murray could won 5 rnds and scored a KD, the fight was pretty darn close. That's how I saw it.

I think it went down like that was a combination of Martinez getting older and Murray being better than most thought he was.

[GrandpaBernard]

Because he lost to Martin Murray

[BafanaBafana]

The two best middleweights of the very late 90s and early 00s not named Hopkins were Joppy and Holmes, both of whom Hopkins beat. Both were better than any of Martinez's middleweight opponents bar possibly Pavlik. Trinidad was a big and great Welterweight who brutalized Joppy when he moved up to middleweight. At middleweight Trinidad was clearly brilliant despite only having two fights there. I'd fancy Trinidad to have beaten Pavlik.

I was mostly making a reference to his pre-2001 record because some guy said Hopkins was the kingpin of the division since 1995. I don't rate Joppy and Holmes very much. I can't tell you what each guy's most notable win is and both guys lost to average fighters while in their prime. I just feel that was a weak point (1996-2004) in the division (much as it is today). Trinidad was never that good at the weight, he was an overblown welterweight, was schooled by Hopkins and Wright. His wins over Mayorga (another ovverblown fighter), Cherifi?, and Joppy were nothing special. DLH in my opinion had an 0-2 record at the weight and was so overblown he looked soft and fat.

[Humean]

I was mostly making a reference to his pre-2001 record because some guy said Hopkins was the kingpin of the division since 1995. I don't rate Joppy and Holmes very much. I can't tell you what each guy's most notable win is and both guys lost to average fighters while in their prime. I just feel that was a weak point (1996-2004) in the division (much as it is today). Trinidad was never that good at the weight, he was an overblown welterweight, was schooled by Hopkins and Wright. His wins over Mayorga (another ovverblown fighter), Cherifi?, and Joppy were nothing special. DLH in my opinion had an 0-2 record at the weight and was so overblown he looked soft and fat.

Hopkins was the best since 1995. 1996-2004 was certainly not the best period in middleweight history but it was not especially poor. Joppy and Holmes were nothing special but like I said compared to Martinez's opponents they are better than all of them bar probably Pavlik. Joppy and Holmes simply were the two best middleweights at that time after Hopkins until Trinidad moved up. Trinidad was a huge welterweight, that cannot be denied, therefore to talk of him being an overblown middleweight is wide of the mark. He beat two high quality junior middleweights when he stepped up to that weight, again signifying how big a welterweight he was, remember he was 5'11". He not only beat Joppy but completely brutalized him. Trinidad was probably the best middleweight from maybe Jones jr all the way to Pavlik or Martinez not named Bernard Hopkins. Losing to Winky Wright is hardly a disgrace and this was probably not Trinidad at his peak but the version of Trinidad that fought Hopkins was very good indeed. I think few consider the De La Hoya win as being as significant as you are making out, middleweight was one division too much for him I think.