Is Wladimir Klitschko a top 5 ATG heavyweight?

[edgarg]

I never said Willard was great? I said he was a good win. Which he was.

A lot of people on here used to say he's the worst champ in history etc etc, but he drew in 60.000-70.000 people just to watch him fight. Maybe it was because he was the new white champion I don't know. At the same time, you can't ignore that he was one of the strongest champs. Ffs he killed a guy with an uppercut! He also floored Johnson, though I wouldn't count out that he took a dive entirely, but would be odd since jack had beaten him pretty solidly up until then.

He also had a great chin, but just wasn't prepared for the onslaught that Dempsey was putting on him even though he was coming into the fight with something like 7 straight KOs.

You are making me out to say Willard was a great champ. I never said that, but he was still lineal, undisputed champion.

I don't know why you keep harping on "lineal" They were ALL lineal in those days, and nobody even questioned it. It was a non-topic. As for Willard killing Young, What I recall is that it was a bad mismatch from the beginning because Young was less than 6 ft. was only a 3 fight beginner of which he'd lost 2 by bad beatings (I think 6 rounders).

The fight was described by boxrec (who took it from newspaper reports or books I read years ago) that the punch was a light uppercut, and the crowd booed because they though he'd taken a dive. And i think it was mid-way in a 20 rd fight. TWENTY ROUNDS...not bad for a guy who'd won only 1 fight ....eh??

I'm sorry i can't agree with you. believe me. At the same time I think that Willard was actually a good fighter even though he didn't actually like fighting.

[Madjab]

No, but it was pretty damn close. At least Haye made him do a chicken dance.

Yeah props to Haye for shaking up a guy in the last round that 47 yr old Holyfield thoroughly outboxed prior

[Simurgh]

He is top10 no doubt. He can break into top5 if he doesn't lose till he retires and if he beats a future champion + a few other good contenders.

For example if he beats Povetkin, Pulev, Tyson and Wilder and then Tyson or Wilder become next champions that's is top5 IMO.

[Madjab]

He is top10 no doubt. He can break into top5 if he doesn't lose till he retires and if he beats a future champion + a few other good contenders.

For example if he beats Povetkin, Pulev, Tyson and Wilder and then Tyson or Wilder become next champions that's is top5 IMO.

Good honest post. Wlad would be helped by a win that ages well definitely.

[edgarg]

It's like 1 o'clock over here so I don't have the patience to reply to it all right now, but it was indeed very interesting and having read a lot of your posts in the past, I know you are very knowledgable about the game.

One thing I do want to say though, is that it wasn't a swipe at Klitschko that they won't fight. I Have a brother too man, we wouldn't fight either. But who's the best? We just don't now. I am of the unpopular opinion that Vital prime for prime would beat Wlad, but his record can't back it up.

And with regards to the whole, who beat who, and who did the opponents beat, that's what started the whole thing, because in my view, not many of Wlad's opponents have actually fought that many other top 10 fighters. That's because of the sheer lack of talent, or at least the amount of talent in the division, resulting in guys beating one top 15 guy and then being granted a shot. So even if these guys potentially were good, they wouldn't gt a chance to prove it before they got a shot at the title.

On Marciano, he was a victim of circumstance. Joe Louis was more past it then Walcott and Charles and was basically only fighting to pay off his debt. It wasn't joe Louis in there. But 49-0 with 43 KOs, that's a good record. It's just sad that he happened to land in between two great eras.

I agree with you about Klitschko that VK would likely beat WK, but we'll never know and it's all good fuel for the fans of future years.

I just don't agree with your Marciano opinion. In MY opinion he was lucky that he came along whilst the Mafia still had some influence (the Senate Investigations were the beginning of the end) and in another era would have had only very brief fame, if at all.

Just an example; Frankie Carbo was a VERY powerful boxing promoter. He was also a Murder Inc. shooter. Wasn't it he and Blinky Palermo who were involved with the Sonny Liston management. And that was about 10 years after Marciano. The whole sport was tainted. I recall I used to watch a weekly show featuring Rocky Graziano, Jake LaMotta and Sugar Ray Robinson. They'd reminisce about fights and boxing and give anecdotes. One night when they were talking about fixed fights, Robinson said:... I often had to fight 20 rounds-10 for me and 10 for my opponent..." And the others assented heartily and quoted a few of their own.

Just boxing chat.

[edgarg]

LACEDUP; Thinking about the "unofficial fights" I recall reading that although distance decisions were not allowed to be given, a title could change hands by KO. At least according to the Boxing Authorities.

Benny Leonard had fought Champion Freddy Welsh a few times and didn't beat him. He was sure that he could, and in a 3rd fight, pretended that he wasn't fit, and would be happy for the fight to go the distance. He fooled him and knocked him out somewhere around rd 10. So that's how he got the title.

And as we know, he turned out to be probably the best lightweight Champion in history, certainly top 3 along with Joe Gans and Roberto Duran.

[sugarsmosley]

Lennox, Ali, Louis, Johnson, Dempsey, Frazier, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson, Marciano, Holyfield are definitely higher IMO. Then you can throw in Charles, Walcott, Liston, etc. in terms of greatness I'd him a place around 15-20.

Perfect placement for him.

[Jedi Vader]

I see Jedi Vader and his several alts like FrankieBruno voted.

Before the #2 option was over 50%, but with Jedi Vader and his alts voting, the gap closed very quickly.

I see you never replied to my previous post.

My alts? Splendid, tell me who you think my alts are then.

We all know that your aliases are Szef99 and Hooks'n'You.

It's interesting that you and your two alts are the only ones to have me on ignore.

Not sure what ur talkin about here mate, I don't have any aliases on here, just one name. Also I don't care about some poll on a forum, it's not that serious fella

Its pathetic that you would even accuse me of some crap like that though, seriously.

Don't worry Frankie. He needs a tampon when it comes to his boyfriend.

[Someone88]

I have Wladimir between 6 and 10 right now.

Another couple of years of dominance with a few more good wins over previously undefeated fighters: Povetkin, Pulev, Boytsov, Fury (if he beats Haye), winner of Ruiz-Hanks, and/or Jennings and he'll be top 5.

Some of his wins are underrated fighters who were undefeated and in their prime (Ibragimov, Chagaev, Brock, etc) or had never been previously stopped (Thompson, Chambers, Shultz, Shufford, Barrett, etc).

Good points made. Also the poll suggests that Wladimir could be rated between top 6 to top 10 as well.

[Someone88]

Wlad gives all the great heavywieghts huge problems.

Too big, too strong, too smart.

Wlad is underrated and one of the best ive ever seen.

Good points made.