Is Wladimir Klitschko a top 5 ATG heavyweight?

[Windmills]

Not IMO but will probably be a top 10 HW when its over

[edgarg]

No. Willard beat Johnson and was the legitimate HW champion, something Wlad has yet to achieve himself never mind any of his opponents. He beat multiple ranked opponents and held the title for four years. He was big and strong and basically swept all competition to the side before losing to Dempsey.

I really hate to interject myself into this ******, ******, imbecilic debate, but you are talking such nonsense that I just HAD to. Willard did none of the things you proudly claim, except beating a 37 year old fat, badly out of shape Johnson. And that was because it was a 45 rd-er, a Fight to a Finish. If it had been a 20 rd fight Johnson would have won EASILY. But the "powers-that-be" )The US Government and the negro-haters) made this impossible.

Willard had ONE...a SINGLE DEFENCE, against a nonentity with 3-4 KO losses in a 10 rd "title" fight decided by a "newspapers" decision. This was during his "4 year reign" where he supposedly "swept" all opposition away. Your dreams are very imaginative, I must say. Dempsey, his successor, after a good beginning, settled down to a retirement during which he married a Hollywood star and partied non-stop for 4 years before dragging himself together to beat Sharkey by unexpected KO when he'd lost just about every round, and then lose twice to Tunney. Good-bye Dempsey.

And Lastly........ that fact that you have a likely Mafia-protected fighter like Marciano so high in your "list", makes is completely unworthy to bother reading.

My only excuse it that I had to read it to be able to respond. Marciano's opponents are a list of kids, seniors and punch-drunks (assumed for many-fight boxers). And if you check THEIR opponents, you'll get........ I don't want to be responsible for what you'll get. (his best win-Joe Louis, was in-and-out of psychiatric sanitariums-when at home he used to crouch under the table with the cloth pulled down to hide him-told by his son)

Klitschko will probably end up as a top 10.

Go away.

[Madjab]

I really hate to interject myself into this ******, ******, imbecilic debate, but you are talking such nonsense that I just HAD to. Willard did none of the things you proudly claim, except beating a 37 year old fat, badly out of shape Johnson. And that was because it was a 45 rd-er, a Fight to a Finish. If it had been a 20 rd fight Johnson would have won EASILY. But the "powers-that-be" )The US Government and the negro-haters) made this impossible.

Willard had ONE...a SINGLE DEFENCE, against a nonentity with 3-4 KO losses in a 10 rd "title" fight decided by a "newspapers" decision. This was during his "4 year reign" where he supposedly "swept" all opposition away. Your dreams are very imaginative, I must say. Dempsey, his successor, after a good beginning, settled down to a retirement during which he married a Hollywood star and partied non-stop for 4 years before dragging himself together to beat Sharkey by unexpected KO when he'd lost just about every round, and then lose twice to Tunney. Good-bye Dempsey.

And Lastly........ that fact that you have a likely Mafia-protected fighter like Marciano so high in your "list", makes is completely unworthy to bother reading.

My only excuse it that I had to read it to be able to respond. Marciano's opponents are a list of kids, seniors and punch-drunks (assumed for many-fight boxers). And if you check THEIR opponents, you'll get........ I don't want to be responsible for what you'll get. (his best win-Joe Louis, was in-and-out of psychiatric sanitariums-when at home he used to crouch under the table with the cloth pulled down to hide him-told by his son)

Klitschko will probably end up as a top 10.

Go away.

Thank you

[LacedUp]

I really hate to interject myself into this ******, ******, imbecilic debate, but you are talking such nonsense that I just HAD to. Willard did none of the things you proudly claim, except beating a 37 year old fat, badly out of shape Johnson. And that was because it was a 45 rd-er, a Fight to a Finish. If it had been a 20 rd fight Johnson would have won EASILY. But the "powers-that-be" )The US Government and the negro-haters) made this impossible.

Willard had ONE...a SINGLE DEFENCE, against a nonentity with 3-4 KO losses in a 10 rd "title" fight decided by a "newspapers" decision. This was during his "4 year reign" where he supposedly "swept" all opposition away. Your dreams are very imaginative, I must say. Dempsey, his successor, after a good beginning, settled down to a retirement during which he married a Hollywood star and partied non-stop for 4 years before dragging himself together to beat Sharkey by unexpected KO when he'd lost just about every round, and then lose twice to Tunney. Good-bye Dempsey.

And Lastly........ that fact that you have a likely Mafia-protected fighter like Marciano so high in your "list", makes is completely unworthy to bother reading.

My only excuse it that I had to read it to be able to respond. Marciano's opponents are a list of kids, seniors and punch-drunks (assumed for many-fight boxers). And if you check THEIR opponents, you'll get........ I don't want to be responsible for what you'll get. (his best win-Joe Louis, was in-and-out of psychiatric sanitariums-when at home he used to crouch under the table with the cloth pulled down to hide him-told by his son)

Klitschko will probably end up as a top 10.

Go away.

If you ad read further I did say that whilst Willard did not make defenses of his title he did fight unofficial fights against ranked "white hope" opponents. With regards to what you say about Johnson, I also did concede that he was out of shape, but that was hardly Willard's fault that Johnson didn't take him seriously. And it was a response to the person in question.

Though Dempsey didn't have the amount of defenses of the HW crown, he brought more viewers to boxing than pretty much anyone before him. And my point about Dempsey was only that he was the lineal champ and the bes of his time, something Wlad has yet to prove seeing as the second best guy in his division is a guy he will never fight.

With regards to Marciano, I don't even really have him in my top ten. Though many historians have. He did have some legendary wins and whether you think he was 'mafia protected" or not doesn't make a damn deference to that. He holds the all time greatest record in HW history and has three all time greats on his résumé. 5 fights. Which is a whole lot more than you can say for many of the other top fighters in history. Regardless of the state they may have been in.

[edgarg]

Thank you

The keenest fight fans here sometimes seem to neglect boxing history, so they are caught short at the wrong time. Because someone (like me) is bound sooner or later to come along and expose their ignorance. It's better to keep silent about things one is not sure of. Even so, it's pretty easy to check up on things with the internet. I just happen to be an omniverous reader with a good memory and a great interest in boxing and boxing history.

Even when I was a kid, my elders were talking about these things and times. There was often talk about Dempsey, Johnson, Benny Leonard, Max Baer, Barney Ross and others. There was always talk about how Dempsey and Johnson would do against Joe Louis. I even spoke a few times to a former sparring partner of Tommy Burns, when he was a very old man and I was a very young one. He gave a few items to our boxing club.

So I suppose it stirred my interest in those times.

[Madjab]

The keenest fight fans here sometimes seem to neglect boxing history, so they are caught short at the wrong time. Because someone (like me) is bound sooner or later to come along and expose their ignorance. It's better to keep silent about things one is not sure of. Even so, it's pretty easy to check up on things with the internet. I just happen to be an omniverous reader with a good memory and a great interest in boxing and boxing history.

Even when I was a kid, my elders were talking about these things and times. There was often talk about Dempsey, Johnson, Benny Leonard, Max Baer, Barney Ross and others. There was always talk about how Dempsey and Johnson would do against Joe Louis. I even spoke a few times to a former sparring partner of Tommy Burns, when he was a very old man and I was a very young one. He gave a few items to our boxing club.

So I suppose it stirred my interest in those times.

There are some fighters that deserve all the credit in the world back in the Greb/Walker/Gans/Leonard/Pep era of boxing....Dempsey is one that is heavily over-glorified. Willard? lol really?

[LacedUp]

There are some fighters that deserve all the credit in the world back in the Greb/Walker/Gans/Leonard/Pep era of boxing....Dempsey is one that is heavily over-glorified. Willard? lol really?

I never said Willard was great? I said he was a good win. Which he was.

A lot of people on here used to say he's the worst champ in history etc etc, but he drew in 60.000-70.000 people just to watch him fight. Maybe it was because he was the new white champion I don't know. At the same time, you can't ignore that he was one of the strongest champs. Ffs he killed a guy with an uppercut! He also floored Johnson, though I wouldn't count out that he took a dive entirely, but would be odd since jack had beaten him pretty solidly up until then.

He also had a great chin, but just wasn't prepared for the onslaught that Dempsey was putting on him even though he was coming into the fight with something like 7 straight KOs.

You are making me out to say Willard was a great champ. I never said that, but he was still lineal, undisputed champion.

[Madjab]

I never said Willard was great? I said he was a good win. Which he was.

A lot of people on here used to say he's the worst champ in history etc etc, but he drew in 60.000-70.000 people just to watch him fight. Maybe it was because he was the new white champion I don't know. At the same time, you can't ignore that he was one of the strongest champs. Ffs he killed a guy with an uppercut! He also floored Johnson, though I wouldn't count out that he took a dive entirely, but would be odd since jack had beaten him pretty solidly up until then.

He also had a great chin, but just wasn't prepared for the onslaught that Dempsey was putting on him even though he was coming into the fight with something like 7 straight KOs.

You are making me out to say Willard was a great champ. I never said that, but he was still lineal, undisputed champion.

You're acting like he was a dominant reigning champion. I know you're trolling because apparently I've only ever encountered you in Klitschko threads.

I'm hardly a K bro fan but I know overrating when I see it and thats what youre doing for Willard as a champ in order to big up Dempsey.

[LacedUp]

You're acting like he was a dominant reigning champion. I know you're trolling because apparently I've only ever encountered you in Klitschko threads.

I'm hardly a K bro fan but I know overrating when I see it and thats what youre doing for Willard as a champ in order to big up Dempsey.

Willard was seen as a mammoth of a man, 60 pounds heavier than Dempsey and had beaten the great Jack Johnson. He wasn't a dominant champ, but he doesn't get respect for what he did accomplish, even though the circumstances were poor perhaps.

Wtf are you talking about? Apparently you started that profile this month, so I would say you don't have a clue.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

Willard was seen as a mammoth of a man, 60 pounds heavier than Dempsey and had beaten the great Jack Johnson. He wasn't a dominant champ, but he doesn't get respect for what he did accomplish, even though the circumstances were poor perhaps.

Wtf are you talking about? Apparently you started that profile this month, so I would say you don't have a clue.

Valuev was also a mammoth of a man,, Does that make Haye great