Is Wladimir Klitschko a top 5 ATG heavyweight?

[Simurgh]

This ^.

He'll never be ahead of Lennox, though.

It comes to personal taste. Lennox was meaner, more exciting fighter (for most) and he beat other ATGs unfortunately not in their primes. Two KO loses harm his legacy a bit, so I can't consider him for GOAT, but top5 ATG hell yes.

I have equally high opinion on Wlad and his legacy. I change my mind often, but atm I have Lennox slightly ahead.

When Wlad retires (I don't expect him to lose anymore) I'll have them tied most probably and every now or then would put one above. I really like both of them. They are real models of modern HW boxing.

[Thickback]

Yes he does. It's sad.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but wtf?? I was never a fan of Lennox, but respect his accomplishments, but let's be clear, this dude sat back and waited for a lot of people to go away/get old/retire before really becoming a star. And he was KO'd by 2 B- level fighters. Vitali is the more talented brother imo, but they have suspect chins and C+ level wins on his record. It's unfortunate that they didn't have much competition, but it's not good that they have losses to a lower level of talent than the ATGs that they are supposed to be ahead of on slimshandy's fantasy list.

[Thickback]

It comes to personal taste. Lennox was meaner, more exciting fighter (for most) and he beat other ATGs unfortunately not in their primes. Two KO loses harm his legacy a bit, so I can't consider him for GOAT, but top5 ATG hell yes.

I have equally high opinion on Wlad and his legacy. I change my mind often, but atm I have Lennox slightly ahead.

When Wlad retires (I don't expect him to lose anymore) I'll have them tied most probably and every now or then would put one above. I really like both of them. They are real models of modern HW boxing.

No matter what Wlad does until he retires, Lennoz has faced stiffer competition in a better era of HW boxing. I have Lennox ahead of both brothers for sre, but not in my top 5, not even close.

[yoz]

It comes to personal taste. Lennox was meaner, more exciting fighter (for most) and he beat other ATGs unfortunately not in their primes. Two KO loses harm his legacy a bit, so I can't consider him for GOAT, but top5 ATG hell yes.

I have equally high opinion on Wlad and his legacy. I change my mind often, but atm I have Lennox slightly ahead.

When Wlad retires (I don't expect him to lose anymore) I'll have them tied most probably and every now or then would put one above. I really like both of them. They are real models of modern HW boxing.

Good post!

[yoz]

I know you like Wlad and that's fair. At least you can explain why you think he's up there etc and have realistic approach to his legacy. But this guy.. He gives good fans like you a bad name.



Yes he does. It's sad.

Yeah, he's a moron.

I have Mormeck as the GOAT...

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

Ali
Louis
Marciano
Frazier
Foreman

would you rank him over any of these 5?

I would rank him above Frazier and Foreman.

[Dr.Eisenfaust]

If you ad read further I did say that whilst Willard did not make defenses of his title he did fight unofficial fights against ranked "white hope" opponents. With regards to what you say about Johnson, I also did concede that he was out of shape, but that was hardly Willard's fault that Johnson didn't take him seriously. And it was a response to the person in question.

Though Dempsey didn't have the amount of defenses of the HW crown, he brought more viewers to boxing than pretty much anyone before him. And my point about Dempsey was only that he was the lineal champ and the bes of his time, something Wlad has yet to prove seeing as the second best guy in his division is a guy he will never fight.

With regards to Marciano, I don't even really have him in my top ten. Though many historians have. He did have some legendary wins and whether you think he was 'mafia protected" or not doesn't make a damn deference to that. He holds the all time greatest record in HW history and has three all time greats on his résumé. 5 fights. Which is a whole lot more than you can say for many of the other top fighters in history. Regardless of the state they may have been in.

shut up you just got owned.

[LacedUp]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions but wtf?? I was never a fan of Lennox, but respect his accomplishments, but let's be clear, this dude sat back and waited for a lot of people to go away/get old/retire before really becoming a star. And he was KO'd by 2 B- level fighters. Vitali is the more talented brother imo, but they have suspect chins and C+ level wins on his record. It's unfortunate that they didn't have much competition, but it's not good that they have losses to a lower level of talent than the ATGs that they are supposed to be ahead of on slimshandy's fantasy list.

Yes everyone are entitled to their opinion. But if I say Amir Khan is the best LWW of all times, I would either be completely ignorant on the subject, delusional or very very biased.

With regards to Lennox, I don't agree at all. Bowe didn't want to fight him, Tyson didn't want to fight him and Holyfield was the man they went to instead because they thought he was the lesser opponent. That's why Lennox didn't fight the elite group before late in his career. Evander even acknowledges that. Tyson gave up his WBC belt and a couple of million dollars to avoid Lennox because he "needed two or three fits to be ready".

Regardless who's fault it was, it still takes away from Lennoxs legacy. But even without Holyfield and Tyson, Lennox beat pretty much every top 10 HW from 91-03 and that's a feat nobody else had managed for a long time. Guys like Tua was made out to be his biggest challenge, but he made him look like a poor sparring partner. As with everyone else, he's fought a few bums but nowhere near the same amount as Wlad and Vitali. That's partly also because the talent pool is way smaller now than it was in the 90's which is why you can't blame them entirely. But they have definitely four their fair share of fighters when someone else was way more equipped for the challenge.

Wladimir is without question the most talented of the two, but Vitali has bigger balls and a way better chin, which is why I think he would win. But Wlad's resume pisses all over Vitalis.

[Jedi Vader]

joe Louis for title defences, lennox lewis, Rocky Marciano and Vitali.

Before 2008 I had lennox lewis best ever in terms of fantasy match up. I now have WLAD nuber 1, vitali number 2 and lennox 3.

These guys would destroy any heavy weight from any era when on top form.

Words fail me.......

[Jedi Vader]

Yes everyone are entitled to their opinion. But if I say Amir Khan is the best LWW of all times, I would either be completely ignorant on the subject, delusional or very very biased.

With regards to Lennox, I don't agree at all. Bowe didn't want to fight him, Tyson didn't want to fight him and Holyfield was the man they went to instead because they thought he was the lesser opponent. That's why Lennox didn't fight the elite group before late in his career. Evander even acknowledges that. Tyson gave up his WBC belt and a couple of million dollars to avoid Lennox because he "needed two or three fits to be ready".

Regardless who's fault it was, it still takes away from Lennoxs legacy. But even without Holyfield and Tyson, Lennox beat pretty much every top 10 HW from 91-03 and that's a feat nobody else had managed for a long time. Guys like Tua was made out to be his biggest challenge, but he made him look like a poor sparring partner. As with everyone else, he's fought a few bums but nowhere near the same amount as Wlad and Vitali. That's partly also because the talent pool is way smaller now than it was in the 90's which is why you can't blame them entirely. But they have definitely four their fair share of fighters when someone else was way more equipped for the challenge.

Wladimir is without question the most talented of the two, but Vitali has bigger balls and a way better chin, which is why I think he would win. But Wlad's resume pisses all over Vitalis.

Yes it does and Klitimir's resume stinks as it is.