Comments Thread For: Scully on Dawson: “He sort of turned a corner in his life”

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

See that's where I disagree. Dawson did not look the least bit drained to me at the weigh in. Look at Rios at the weigh in for his fight with Murray. THAT'S severely drained. Dawson hit the weight right on the money. Looked hydrated and healthy.

TMan...come on now...you are going by what u think he LOOKED like? Listen, I was there...for all of it. Weight drained doesnt even begin to describe what this guy was. Unless you call not eating food or drink for literally more than 36 hours before the weigh-in a healthy situation? Hitting the weight right on the money means NOTHING. Some guys literally make the weight for 15 minutes...in a span of seven months the only time they are actually at the fight weight is 15 minutes before the weigh-in when they make it by stopping off in a bathroom and spitting of the last two ounces before the head to the scale. Im not even saying he beats Ward if he made the weight properly, WARD IS THE MAN, but Chad doesnt made the weight in terrible fashion for that fight and he was the poster boy for and the epitome of "weight drained"

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I think you're actually agreeing with Iceman. He was never ok with this fight at 168.


Posted from Boxingscene.com App for Android

THAT'S WHAT I AM SAYING...this guy is agreeing with me. Im not sure what the issue here is?? I am the boxing trainer, not the strength coach/nutritionist or the manager or the promoter. I had no say in going to 168 or not.

[Interloper]

Either walk away and refuse to be involved with a fighter going into a fight that he seemed destined to lose because of the horrendous weight-making practices you observed Chad going through during camp.

Or, concede that you were involved with the training camp which wasn't handled the way it should have been while also allowing that you were a part of the team, you chose not to walk away and in hindsight that was a bad idea.

The problem isn't really that you continued to train with Chad up until the fight, but that you're so adamantly opposed to what was going on during the camp now that everything is over with, when there's no longer any risk involved.

[snoopymiller]

Either walk away and refuse to be involved with a fighter going into a fight that he seemed destined to lose because of the horrendous weight-making practices you observed Chad going through during camp.

Or, concede that you were involved with the training camp which wasn't handled the way it should have been while also allowing that you were a part of the team, you chose not to walk away and in hindsight that was a bad idea.

The problem isn't really that you continued to train with Chad up until the fight, but that you're so adamantly opposed to what was going on during the camp now that everything is over with, when there's no longer any risk involved.

He says that Chad being 184 3 weeks out was a problem. No it wasn't. That's Chad's normal weight 3 weeks out from a fight.

Somehow he acts like if HE had HIS way, Chad would have made 168 and been more effective. Ridiculous

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

The problem isn't really that you continued to train with Chad up until the fight, but that you're so adamantly opposed to what was going on during the camp now that everything is over with, when there's no longer any risk involved.

No...there is no problem...I did what I was supposed to do...I trained him the best I could under the circumstances...if I was to walk away then it would have messed his head up even more and I didnt want that for him...understand, Chad didnt know all this was going on in camp, he didnt know I was at odds with the strength coach/nutritionist...that would have been wrong, it would have been a titanic mental blow if his trainer walked away during camp because he didnt feel he was losing weight properly...Chad was the LAST person I could involve in the discussion. Or do you somehow think I should have brought this issues to light publically before the fight so that you and Andre and Virgil and everyone betting on the fight would know about it? I mean, what are you saying? That YOU as a fan should be made aware of everything that goes on before a fight? No, it doesnt work that way. Its like a Hollywood movie, you cant actually review the movie until its been on screen for the public to view. Its always after the fact that the details must come out, not before when it is still a situation where the problems have a chance to be rectified. And , like I say, as a trainer I have a future in this sport and if someone points a finger at me that will cause me harm down the line then I need to make sure the facts are onthe table. Unfortunately, I am not a fan in this situation, it is my BUSINESS so my perception and outlook is much different than yours...

[-Antonio-]

I think the amount of times Chad has changed trainers in his career tells us a lot.

Back in the day when Floyd Sr. talked **** about Chad not being focused I put it all on him, now I'm starting to think he may have had a point.

He still has a lot of physical talent that will take him a long way. Beating Hopkins like that does mean something to me.

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

He says that Chad being 184 3 weeks out was a problem. No it wasn't. That's Chad's normal weight 3 weeks out from a fight.

Somehow he acts like if HE had HIS way, Chad would have made 168 and been more effective. Ridiculous

With all due respect, I dont want to argue, but you really have NO IDEA what you are talking about in this situation. Im not looking to argue, insult, fight, cyberwar, none of that, Im just conversating...but what you are saying is 100000 percent wrong. If you HONESTLY think -after reading the weights- that this is normal then I dont know what to tell you. It is "ridiculous" that you are a guy on a message board trying to tell me - the trainer, the guy who was there three feet away watching this unfold- that it wasnt a problem. As I read your posts and your late entry into this discussion, and you saying that is Chad's normal weight three weeks out from a fight it makes me ask, "How do you know what his weight is three weeks out? You are there weighing him?" And if he is normally 183 that far out from a fight thats OK when he fights at 175 but I am sure you know he had to lose SEVEN MORE POUNDS for this ? You know that right? So NO, it is not ok, NO.

And, YES, If I was in charge of Chad's weight loss for that fight you can guarantee 100000000 percent he would have made weight in much better fashion. That's not even a question.

[Interloper]

No...there is no problem...I did what I was supposed to do...I trained him the best I could under the circumstances...if I was to walk away then it would have messed his head up even more and I didnt want that for him...understand, Chad didnt know all this was going on in camp, he didnt know I was at odds with the strength coach/nutritionist...that would have been wrong, it would have been a titanic mental blow if his trainer walked away during camp because he didnt feel he was losing weight properly...Chad was the LAST person I could involve in the discussion. Or do you somehow think I should have brought this issues to light publically before the fight so that you and Andre and Virgil and everyone betting on the fight would know about it? I mean, what are you saying? That YOU as a fan should be made aware of everything that goes on before a fight? No, it doesnt work that way. Its like a Hollywood movie, you cant actually review the movie until its been on screen for the public to view. Its always after the fact that the details must come out, not before when it is still a situation where the problems have a chance to be rectified. And , like I say, as a trainer I have a future in this sport and if someone points a finger at me that will cause me harm down the line then I need to make sure the facts are onthe table. Unfortunately, I am not a fan in this situation, it is my BUSINESS so my perception and outlook is much different than yours...

No, I understand your point of view - not necessary to explain your motivations from a trainer's perspective.

The argument I'm making is a subtle one, but it's more a matter of integrity. I'm placing myself in your situation and figuring out how I would handle it, so I'm talking to myself here just as much as I'm talking to you about this.

My point is that, of course you're not going to evacuate a training camp because of a weight issue, miss out on a payday, impact your career negatively, etc. It's not like the weight issue is one of morality or something dishonest was going on, so that's not a problem.

The observation I'm making is that since you didn't walk away, since you kept training him and followed through with the fight, you should accept responsibility and own up to your involvement. That's it.

I suppose I just have a problem with after-the-fact attitude. "It wasn't me. I did everything right. These guys were running things, I just went along with it. It was a terrible idea, but I went along with it. Now that the fight is over with and I've gotten paid for my services, I'm telling everyone that the whole thing was doomed from the start. The next fighter I trained won't have this problem, you can believe that..." etc. etc. You're obviously not saying all that, but that's the general vibe that I'm observing based on your point-of-view, at least in these posts and in this thread. Make sense?

[Guest]

What about if Chad had just one look at Play Misty For Me?

[ICEMAN JOHN SCULLY]

I understand how someone could get that impression, I do...listen, I AM NOT saying I am the greatest trainer, I know everything, etc etc...the fact is that even if Chad made weight perfectly he may have still lost, lost badly, maybe even worse. And it would sound better to you if a third party was sticking up for me like this here, I know that, but the only people in camp were myself...and people who will only stick up for Chad because they are stil on his team or they were the ones at fault. Its hindsight, YES, but I assure you, on AUGUST 13th I made my concerns VERY apparent and I was shot down. I was rudely shot down as a matter of fact. It almost got ugly but, like I say, I tried my best to keep it civil because I didnt want to cause more mental duress for Chad. Even without the weight loss, a fight like that is POWERFUL on the mind. Put urself in my position...you are the trainer, YOU get the blame always for ur boxers performance...u are let go after the bad loss and the nutritionist is still in camp...and you're not going to defend yourself? Please. Ive lost weight improperly enough times as a boxer to know how terrible it is...some people think just because a guy MADE the weight that all is OK but I assure you thaty it isnt. If it was my fault I would either keep really quiet or I would have to admit I played a part in it. But in this case? NO. I knew way in advance where this fight was headed and I told the man in charge of the weight loss, I told others in camp, they know it...its not like Im a genius either...anyone who knows boxing and was there to see how it was done would agree with me, I am 100000 million pct. sure of that.