Why all the hate for Cotto?

[Rome-By-Ko]

he doesnt have a win over cintron...he has a draw.... and i will take wins over quintana (he beat paul williams), judah, mosley, clottey, malignaggi, margarito (he beat sergio) over martinez wins...

chavez lol.... going into the martinez fight chavez had only been in the ring with one former champion (szbik).... not exactly proven....

your level of competition is the measure ofyour greatness


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Martinez win over Pav made him undisputed Champion at 160lb..His win over Pwill was great as well,not to mention Pwill was a guy who could not buy a fight..Voted the most avoided fighter,Martinez fought him twice and left no doubt about it the 2end time around..Cintron was a draw,it also was the only time I seen a fighter get KO'd and then fight to a draw...

Pwill KO'd Quintana and beat Marga's..Say what ya will about Chavez,but dude is freakishly big and durable...I count this as a very good win for Martinez..Once again,Martinez is more accomplished then Cotto..This can't be argued tbh..

[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

trinidads win over vargas is equivalent to cottos win over quintana... nothing better....

really what did vargas do in his career? he lost to trinidad, DLH, mayorga, mosley.... gtfoh with fernando vargas....

dude i own the dlh-trinidad fight.... you cant make a case for giving tito more than 4 generous rounds... dude lost.


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So Quintana is equivalent to a young Vargas? Um, okaaaay....

why the hell not? was Vargas some world beater ? no he wasnt.... i think we're talking about a different Fernando Vargas.... i know boxing fans like to rewrite history but vargas wasnt a great fighter.


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[S. Saddler 1310]

why the hell not? was Vargas some world beater ? no he wasnt....

Quartey was more than holding his own with elite comp in that weight-range (147-154), should have had a clear win over Hoya. you don't know about Winky Wright?

[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

he doesnt have a win over cintron...he has a draw.... and i will take wins over quintana (he beat paul williams), judah, mosley, clottey, malignaggi, margarito (he beat sergio) over martinez wins...

chavez lol.... going into the martinez fight chavez had only been in the ring with one former champion (szbik).... not exactly proven....

your level of competition is the measure ofyour greatness


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Martinez win over Pac made him undisputed Champion at 160lb..His win over Pwill was great as well,not to mention Pwill was a guy who could not buy a fight..Voted the most avoided fighter,Martinez fought him twice and left no doubt about it the 2end time around..Cintron was a draw,it also was the only time I seen a fighter get KO'd and then fight to a draw...

Pwill KO'd Quintana and beat Marga's..Say what ya will about Chavez,but dude is freakishly big and durable...I count this as a very good win for Martinez..Once again,Martinez is more accomplished then Cotto..This can't be argued tbh..

******ity, nothing more really... i can do exactly the same thing... cotto beat quintana who beat paul williams who beat sergio martinez.... or cotto tkoed margarito who tkoed martinez... triangle theories are ridiculous.... to say that martinez is more accomplished than cotto is just dumbassness at its finest... check the original post... the numbers dont lie. you cant argue facts.


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[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

why the hell not? was Vargas some world beater ? no he wasnt....

Quartey was more than holding his own with elite comp in that weight-range (147-154), should have had a clear win over Hoya. you don't know about Winky Wright?

i already mentioned those fights... i said thats all he had... and true to form....thats all you mentioned.


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[S. Saddler 1310]

i already mentioned those fights... i said thats all he had... and true to form....thats all you mentioned.


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what you neglect to mention, though, is that those wins are vastly more creditable than any W Quintana (or the great majority of fighters) will ever put on his record. and he had them by age 22. he stepped up and fought Tito at that age, gave a skillful and courageous display (outboxing him over the middle portion of the fight after recovering from being dropped twice in the early going), but was ultimately overwhelmed and out-experienced, sustaining a beating from which he emerged not quite the same fighter. even then, he was still able to give some very hard nights' work to De La Hoya and Mosley. we never even saw Vargas' prime, because he was savaged by Tito before he reached prime age years, and yet he still has much better work on his rez than Quintana does.

Vargas was a completely different class of fighter to Quintana, a much more creditable scalp, and only a novice fan could fail to perceive that.

[Rome-By-Ko]

******ity, nothing more really... i can do exactly the same thing... cotto beat quintana who beat paul williams who beat sergio martinez.... or cotto tkoed margarito who tkoed martinez... triangle theories are ridiculous.... to say that martinez is more accomplished than cotto is just dumbassness at its finest... check the original post... the numbers dont lie. you cant argue facts.


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You can't argue facts..Martinez is the undisputed MW Champion of the world..Without question he is more accomplished then Cotto..Only a fool would think other wise..

I don't believe in triangle theories,which is was I brought out the facts..Which are Martinez is the top dog of his div..As was Hatton..Which makes both man more accomplished(well for Hatton at 140lb)then Cotto..Who only beat one Champion for a belt..The great Yuri Foreman..Come son..

[S. Saddler 1310]

You can't argue facts..Martinez is the undisputed MW Champion of the world..Without question he is more accomplished then Cotto..Only a fool would think other wise..

I don't believe in triangle theories,which is was I brought out the facts..Which are Martinez is the top dog of his div..As was Hatton..Which makes both man more accomplished(well for Hatton at 140lb)then Cotto..Who only beat one Champion for a belt..The great Yuri Foreman..Come son..

all that guy debates with is numbers and stats, which are often misleading.

for the record, better 'accomplishments' aside, i think you can make a strong case for Cotto having the superior body of work over Martinez. who has the better individual win or better standout wins is more arguable - indeed, i may lean toward Martinez on close analysis. ultimately, i don't think Martinez is significantly above Cotto in legacy terms, if at all. we'll see what they each do next.

[S. Saddler 1310]

this is the thing about 'accomplishments'.

if guy A is #1 in a weak divisional era, does that mean he has a better body of work or is truly greater than guy B who fought in a notably stronger era for that division and was a close #2 (behind a chief rival who ranked among the truly elite of the time)? guy A may have been more accomplished in a purely superficial, titular sense, but was his run as substantial as guy B's?

[thatdudespits]

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatdudespits

i already mentioned those fights... i said thats all he had... and true to form....thats all you mentioned.


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what you neglect to mention, though, is that those wins are vastly more creditable than any W Quintana (or the great majority of fighters) will ever put on his record. and he had them by age 22. he stepped up and fought Tito at that age, gave a skillful and courageous display (outboxing him over the middle portion of the fight after recovering from being dropped twice in the early going), but was ultimately overwhelmed and out-experienced, sustaining a beating from which he emerged not quite the same fighter. even then, he was still able to give some very hard nights' work to De La Hoya and Mosley. we never even saw Vargas' prime, because he was savaged by Tito before he reached prime age years, and yet he still has much better work on his rez than Quintana does.

Vargas was a completely different class of fighter to Quintana, a much more creditable scalp, and only a novice fan could fail to perceive that.

a novice fan....

im sorry but even in his biggest wins quartey and wright were close....

all im saying is quintanas resume of WINS is equal to vargas....

we can argue all day about all the fights vargas lost... it doesnt change the fact those were his two biggest wins....

and i think beating two young undefeated fighters in williams and julio is at least equivalent.


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