Do you HONESTLY consider Pacquiao and Mayweather "Greats"

[whirlwind]

Mayweather? Absolutley. There's no question about it. It annoys me how some people focus everything on what he can be like outside the ring and flat out ignore the fact that he's extremely skilled and has beaten the #1 guys in not one, not two, not three, but FIVE different weight classes. And not only that, he has beaten over 20 top level opponents along the way and only had one or two close battles during that entire span. I don't know what it is, maybe racism, maybe people are just joking, because you would have to be incredibly ignorant to think he's not great. He's better than great. He's the best I have seen.

On the other hand I think it's a valid argument with Pacquiao, due to his best wins mostly coming against ruined opponents and the fact that most people think that Juan Manuel Marquez beat him in at least 2 or their 3 fights. Pacquiao has had a great career, but I wouldn't call him a great boxer. I have to rank Marquez above Manny, and I could understand the logic in someone saying that Bernard Hopkins should be ranked above him as well. It depends how you define "great". Some people use the word a lot, and some people only use it rarely. However, even if you only want to attach it to the Top 10 or Top 20 boxers of all time, I think you should attach it to Floyd Mayweather. I have him up there.

LMAO! Pac shit on Floyd resume bigtime. In the last 5 years in their career, Pac fought 10 times compares to Floyd just 4 times. Pac beat their common opponents (Oscar, Hatton, Mosley and Cotto) sooooooo much better than Floyd. Pac also beat 3 HOF fighters (Barrera, Morales, Marquez) in their prime. Not to mention Pacs 8 weight divisions titles, 4 lineal titles, 3 times fighter of the year and fighter of the decade achievements will leave Floyd many miles behind in the dust.

[bojangles1987]

Without question I consider them greats. Both proved they were greats long before now, and we can't let hatred or disappointment in their current behavior blind us to how great both are.

[Twako]

top 50? both easily imo.
top 30? i'd give pac more chance to come up this high on most historian's list than floyd.

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

They are 2 of the greatest fighters ever. Even some of the guys you named agree.

[-Johannes-]

Yes they're both ATGs. Easy on the top 50. On resume alone Pacquiao should rank a lot higher. What he did is amazing and 20 years from now, it will be considered one of the biggest accomplishments in boxing history.
Floyd ranks high because his resume at 130 is beast, had he stayed around 130-140 he would have made everysingle opponent look even worse.

You have to understand that boxing is different now. If Ali or SRR were to make the bank these two are making, they wouldn't have fought as often and they wouldn't have fought some of the guys they fought.

They're the best fighters in our era whether we like it or not and they will be more overrated in a decade or two. Just like a lot of our black and white legends.

[Grimgash]

Yes they're both ATGs. Easy on the top 50. On resume alone Pacquiao should rank a lot higher. What he did is amazing and 20 years from now, it will be considered one of the biggest accomplishments in boxing history.
Floyd ranks high because his resume at 130 is beast, had he stayed around 130-140 he would have made everysingle opponent look even worse.

You have to understand that boxing is different now. If Ali or SRR were to make the bank these two are making, they wouldn't have fought as often and they wouldn't have fought some of the guys they fought.

They're the best fighters in our era whether we like it or not and they will be more overrated in a decade or two. Just like a lot of our black and white legends.

I fully agree with this, they have options and cash rules all. Some people don't realize that. Manny and Floyd can earn more in a fight than some of the top legends made in their careers in a fight or two, even adding modern day inflation.

[4Corners]

Yes like seriously? Both are inside the Top 50 and are around the Top 30 in my book. They have great resumes. They aren't at the level of Ali, Robinson, Armstrong, or the Leonard and Duran level. But they are ATG's and can only go up from where they are, depending on how they finish their careers.

[MeanestNiceGuy]

Who cares?

The fact that they're names are even considered and used in the same sentence with the ATGs, says a lot. Put it this way, people will still talking about these guys 20 years from now.

The type of fighters that we're going to be stuck with in the next few years (untested with a false sense of entitlement), will make May and Pac look like ATGs by default anyway.

Plus, these whopping millions that they're earning, is sure to have their names brought up. People rarely remember skills 20-30 years from now, when all they can remember is over-the-top paydays.

ATG status usually either gets trumped by money, or gets inflated because of money. As boxing fans, we usually learn to appreciate things long after they've been done.

[MindBat]

Who exactly have they demonstrated these "unbelievable talents" against?

Over the hill Miguel Cotto? Well shot Shane Mosley? Average Margarito?

People in NSB are seriously ignorant of the past, when fighters FOUGHT, the best challenges, and racked up 100's of wins.

These chumps fight once or twice a year against AVERAGE opposition and you lot herald them as some of "the greatest talents ever"

Falling hook line and sinker for the kool=aid

Earl, it is well known Floyd called out BOTH Shane AND Cotto and wanted to make the fight happen, but one had a toothache and the other had to consult his promoter (Floyd's ex-promoter) when the fights really mattered.

Even after Shane called Floyd out years later boxing fans the world over thought it was still a viable fight to make, and even attacked Floyd all over the forums when Floyd didn't immediately take up the challenge.

AFTER Cotto left Arum is when the fight with Floyd happened. Granted it was late, but Cotto was WBC champion at 154 lbs.

Regarding The Margarito Fight ... Pound-for-pound king Floyd Mayweather Jr. rejected promoter Bob Arum's $8 million offer to fight welterweight titlist Antonio Margarito, and he instead exercised a provision in his contract to buy Arum out and become a promotional free agent, Arum told ESPN.com on Monday.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=2420382

People can say Margo may have beaten Floyd or given Floyd a tough fight and whatnot because Margo appeared to be a beast for a little while until he threw his entire career and credibility out the window when he got cold busted for wraps tampering.

It is what it is.

[HeroBando]

Mayweather? Absolutley. There's no question about it. It annoys me how some people focus everything on what he can be like outside the ring and flat out ignore the fact that he's extremely skilled and has beaten the #1 guys in not one, not two, not three, but FIVE different weight classes. And not only that, he has beaten over 20 top level opponents along the way and only had one or two close battles during that entire span. I don't know what it is, maybe racism, maybe people are just joking, because you would have to be incredibly ignorant to think he's not great. He's better than great. He's the best I have seen.

On the other hand I think it's a valid argument with Pacquiao, due to his best wins mostly coming against ruined opponents and the fact that most people think that Juan Manuel Marquez beat him in at least 2 or their 3 fights. Pacquiao has had a great career, but I wouldn't call him a great boxer. I have to rank Marquez above Manny, and I could understand the logic in someone saying that Bernard Hopkins should be ranked above him as well. It depends how you define "great". Some people use the word a lot, and some people only use it rarely. However, even if you only want to attach it to the Top 10 or Top 20 boxers of all time, I think you should attach it to Floyd Mayweather. I have him up there.

I understand your confusion, you're only 19, you weren't around for either guy's heyday. Maybe you should leave these judgements to those that know what they're talking about. But if you wanna get busy, how about digging up some links for those Pac earning figures that were so at odds with Dan Rafael's and Forbes'.