Can Boxing Fans criticise Pacquiao for his catchweight fights and accept that Ward

[CHOWWOKKA]

First off, Manny Pacquiao failed to make weight for a bout way back in 1999. You are aware of this, no?

Next, without the Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would not even have a claim to a title in his last two divisions.

Those titles quasi-legitimized Manny's campaign above 135lbs in the eyes of fans who do not, or rather will not look closer to find the truth.

And regardless to what others think(respect to my man Reloaded), I believe that the DLH win was a product of a rehydration clause. How long has DLH been a pro? How many championship fights has this man been in for him to screw up the weight in his very last fight? DLH came in weighing 145lbs .. a weight he hadn't competed at in 7 years. I don't buy it.

Like it or not, without the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would have to rely on his win over Clottey and Mosley .. both of which the boxing world have labeled as bullshit cherry picking.

Know your boxing.

Manny has 40 straight fights against bums. Its shameful padding. Not only that, but 2 of those bums managed to knock Pacquiao out.

That means he has only 19 other fights in which to judge him. Of those 19 fights, Manny specifically targeted 6 of his opponents coming off career losses. The trend is undeniable. They are DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley. Two of which were catchweights AND one of which was a vacant title against a then banned cheater.

19-6=13. 13 fights in which to judge Pacquiao.

They are:

1-Barrera
2-Marquez - DRAW
3-Battery
4-Morales - LOSS
5-Velazquez
6-Morales
7-Larios
8-Morales
9-Solis
10-Barrera
11-Marquez
12-Diaz
13-Marquez

Now, outside of those 13 fights, I challenge you to show me a legitimate match not including any catchweights that would serve to enhance the value of Manny Pacquiao's legacy. The 6 that I mentioned were all coming off of career losses and therefore were ranked out of the top three .. the ranked spots that have all to do with legacy.

Like it or not, RANK AND CONDITION OF A FIGHTER'S OPPONENTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AS IT PERTAINS TO WEIGHING A LEGACY VALUE.

If anything else were relevant, then opinions would hold weight in a conversation about the merits of legacy. They don't.

I said that to say that Manny Pacquiao's star power comes from three specific matches: DLH, Cotto and Margarito.

Take those three wins away and Manny's biggest wins come over Barrera, Morales and Marquez(2 which are VERY debatable, the last was a robbery).

Now go ahead and make a case for Pacquiao being a superstar without those three wins when you take a good and honest look at the 13 fights he has since first fighting Barrera.

For sure Manny puts on great performances. That's undeniable as well. However great performances do not equal a great legacy when the opposition doesn't warrant the value given to enhance one's legacy.

Jeez you obliterated that guy..

[sicko]

damn dude your ***in obsessed with Hating Ward...it is starting to get a little WEIRD

but hey that is good Promotion for Ward...Keep Starting Topics about him and keep people talking about him until his next fight

your like yet another bitter b!tchy Kessler and/or Froch fan who is still hurt over the fact that Ward DOMINATED your favorite fighter hahaha

[D4thincarnation]

damn dude your ***in obsessed with Hating Ward...it is starting to get a little WEIRD

but hey that is good Promotion for Ward...Keep Starting Topics about him and keep people talking about him until his next fight

your like yet another bitter b!tchy Kessler and/or Froch fan who is still hurt over the fact that Ward DOMINATED your favorite fighter hahaha

Not really about Ward or Pacquiao, it about the double standards of posters.

If you criticise one, you have to criticize both.

If one is not at fault then so is the other one.

[Brother Jay]

Not really about Ward or Pacquiao, it about the double standards of posters.

If you criticise one, you have to criticize both.

If one is not at fault then so is the other one.

If you even had one testicle you'd man up and address the points and stop river dancing around them.

Here's a compliment for you:

You're a lot like Manny Pacquiao.

Both you and he talk like you could do a lot of things "IF" you really wanted to, but neither of you step up and take on the challenge.

He blames Mayweather. You just close your eyes and pretend that you weren't just humiliated and continue on.

So keep up the good work. It must be a short round thing.

[LoadedWraps]

Jeez you obliterated that guy..

Jay just owning people as usual.

[Mr. Fantastic]

Not really about Ward or Pacquiao, it about the double standards of posters.

If you criticise one, you have to criticize both.

If one is not at fault then so is the other one.

That happens A LOT on here. Too many double standards and what's funny is that most don't want to admit it.

[Steven Adams]

So Pacquiao should have made Cotto come down to 140lbs to fight him, that would have been better?

Cotto was the title holder you dipshdt

hahahahahahahahaha

[HeroBando]

First off, Manny Pacquiao failed to make weight for a bout way back in 1999. You are aware of this, no?

Next, without the Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would not even have a claim to a title in his last two divisions.

Those titles quasi-legitimized Manny's campaign above 135lbs in the eyes of fans who do not, or rather will not look closer to find the truth.

And regardless to what others think(respect to my man Reloaded), I believe that the DLH win was a product of a rehydration clause. How long has DLH been a pro? How many championship fights has this man been in for him to screw up the weight in his very last fight? DLH came in weighing 145lbs .. a weight he hadn't competed at in 7 years. I don't buy it.

Like it or not, without the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would have to rely on his win over Clottey and Mosley .. both of which the boxing world have labeled as bullshit cherry picking.

Know your boxing.

Manny has 40 straight fights against bums. Its shameful padding. Not only that, but 2 of those bums managed to knock Pacquiao out.

That means he has only 19 other fights in which to judge him. Of those 19 fights, Manny specifically targeted 6 of his opponents coming off career losses. The trend is undeniable. They are DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley. Two of which were catchweights AND one of which was a vacant title against a then banned cheater.

19-6=13. 13 fights in which to judge Pacquiao.

They are:

1-Barrera
2-Marquez - DRAW
3-Battery
4-Morales - LOSS
5-Velazquez
6-Morales
7-Larios
8-Morales
9-Solis
10-Barrera
11-Marquez
12-Diaz
13-Marquez

Now, outside of those 13 fights, I challenge you to show me a legitimate match not including any catchweights that would serve to enhance the value of Manny Pacquiao's legacy. The 6 that I mentioned were all coming off of career losses and therefore were ranked out of the top three .. the ranked spots that have all to do with legacy.

Like it or not, RANK AND CONDITION OF A FIGHTER'S OPPONENTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AS IT PERTAINS TO WEIGHING A LEGACY VALUE.

If anything else were relevant, then opinions would hold weight in a conversation about the merits of legacy. They don't.

I said that to say that Manny Pacquiao's star power comes from three specific matches: DLH, Cotto and Margarito.

Take those three wins away and Manny's biggest wins come over Barrera, Morales and Marquez(2 which are VERY debatable, the last was a robbery).

Now go ahead and make a case for Pacquiao being a superstar without those three wins when you take a good and honest look at the 13 fights he has since first fighting Barrera.

For sure Manny puts on great performances. That's undeniable as well. However great performances do not equal a great legacy when the opposition doesn't warrant the value given to enhance one's legacy.

The Cotto catchweight request was fine. If you'd taken a poll one year earlier on this site, Cotto would probably have been 4/1. 2 years earlier, 10/1. Neither the DLH not Hatton fights proved Pac could take punches from a legit welter. I bet there was a poll here at some point with Juan Diaz trouncing Pac.

So Cotto at 147 = credit galore, but Clottey = cherrypick? Wasn't Floyd saying Clottey beat Cotto? Maybe Pac should have legitimized his 147 stay by winning belts vs Zaveck and Miki Rodriguez.

Margarito was a garbage "title" fight, but good entertainment. Did you complain when wba 154 champ Cotto requested a 150 cw with Marg, not top 10 at 154?

For the DLH fight Oscar went down 3lbs, Pac up 12. I'm sure you want to believe there was a rehydration clause, you also believe that the guy calling all the shots would agree to such a debilitating secret clause, and not even leak it after the very pathetic, career ending beating he took from a midget underdog.

Did you know that excluding cws, Sergio has 1 top 100 p4p win, career wise? 0 if you exclude guys straight out of rehab. We should still give him this one, since Pavlik was really undefeated, the Hopkins fight was a cw sham.

[Brother Jay]

The Cotto catchweight request was fine. If you'd taken a poll one year earlier on this site, Cotto would probably have been 4/1. 2 years earlier, 10/1. Neither the DLH not Hatton fights proved Pac could take punches from a legit welter. I bet there was a poll here at some point with Juan Diaz trouncing Pac.

So Cotto at 147 = credit galore, but Clottey = cherrypick? Wasn't Floyd saying Clottey beat Cotto? Maybe Pac should have legitimized his 147 stay by winning belts vs Zaveck and Miki Rodriguez.

Margarito was a garbage "title" fight, but good entertainment. Did you complain when wba 154 champ Cotto requested a 150 cw with Marg, not top 10 at 154?

For the DLH fight Oscar went down 3lbs, Pac up 12. I'm sure you want to believe there was a rehydration clause, you also believe that the guy calling all the shots would agree to such a debilitating secret clause, and not even leak it after the very pathetic, career ending beating he took from a midget underdog.

Did you know that excluding cws, Sergio has 1 top 100 p4p win, career wise? 0 if you exclude guys straight out of rehab. We should still give him this one, since Pavlik was really undefeated, the Hopkins fight was a cw sham.

How was the Cotto catchweight request "fine"?

#1 Pacquiao had been making WW weight since being SFW. On fight night he often came in at 144lbs. I know he did against Barrera and Morales.

#2 Cotto had been destroyed by Margarito. Isn't it sad that Pacquiao still needed to drain Cotto to get an unfair advantage even after Miguel's beating?

#3 Championships DO NOT change hands under catchweight rules. Yet, this one did for Pacquiao. This is how Pacquiao attempted to legitimize his run at WW. It was a sham then, and its a sham now. Miguel only even had a belt because he fought unknown Michael Jennings for a paper vacant title so that he could have something to lose to Pacquiao.

DLH went down 3lbs huh? So you mean even though DLH was campaigning as a MW, he went down ONLY 3lbs to fight Pacquiao? LOL .. I suppose you're going to say that DLH came down from the 170lbs he weighed for Mayweather to 147lbs to fight Steve Forbes? You're starting off by lying to yourself. No one is buying that nonsense, pal.

I've ALWAYS said that Martinez is the latest hype in boxing.

The guy beat Williams after Williams was exposed by Quintana, and he beat Pavlik out of rehab. Everything else is pathetic. We agree here because I've caught lots of shit for being the main one saying it.

But that's about all we agree on.

[HeroBando]

2 wrongs dont make one right you dipshdt...

Obviously Cotto's was worse, he was the champ at the weight requesting a cw against a 1 eyed bum LOL

I mean if you don't see that there's degrees of wrong, how are Toney or Jones or Mosley any better than Margarito, they cheated just the same.