Can Boxing Fans criticise Pacquiao for his catchweight fights and accept that Ward

[Paclan]

LOL at this dumb topic getting debunked in the first couple of comments.

Dawson called out Ward and said he'll go to 168 to fight him.

Mosley wanted to fight Pac, Roch tells Mosley "140 or no fight".

Mosley says "but you fought oscar at 147, how come i can't fight him at 147?'

Roach says something along the lines of: Oscar's not you. implying that mosley was better and they needed him to drain himself to have a chance......

BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!

Roach doesn't sign pacquiao's fights. Regardless of what he says in an interview, he has no say in who Pacquiao fights next.

That's between Arum and Pacquiao. Roach didnt even want the Bradley fight. The issue with Mosley was the same in all of Pacquiao's Top Rank PPV fights. Arum wants it in house for the lion's share of the PPV.

They fought immediately after Mosley left Golden Boy, and promotional rights became a non issue.

[Brother Jay]

Roach doesn't sign pacquiao's fights. Regardless of what he says in an interview, he has no say in who Pacquiao fights next.

That's between Arum and Pacquiao. Roach didnt even want the Bradley fight. The issue with Mosley was the same in all of Pacquiao's Top Rank PPV fights. Arum wants it in house for the lion's share of the PPV.

They fought immediately after Mosley left Golden Boy, and promotional rights became a non issue.

If that's true, then why did Manny NOT fight Mosley until he lost to Floyd and demonstrated that the catchweight was no longer necessary ... JUST LIKE ROACH SAID?

[tranquilo]

This isn't the first or second time D4 has been owned in his own thread.

It's gotta be #7 or so

[D4thincarnation]

This isn't the first or second time D4 has been owned in his own thread.

It's gotta be #7 or so

Comment on the thread, if not clear off!

[Brother Jay]

This isn't the first or second time D4 has been owned in his own thread.

It's gotta be #7 or so

LOL@a pactard having the nerve to demand that another member not be disruptive in a thread!

Oh the irony.

Hey Antagonist .. I think you may have just made D4 punch the monitor!

Hahahaha

[D4thincarnation]

LOL@a pactard having the nerve to demand that another member not be disruptive in a thread!

Oh the irony.

Hey Antagonist .. I think you may have just made D4 punch the monitor!

Hahahaha

Well I'll let you and Antagonist play your schoolyard games, call everyone names, and people get owned.

Over here in grown up land we will talk about boxing.

[E-Thug]

Well I'll let you and Antagonist play your schoolyard games, call everyone names, and people get owned.

Over here in grown up land we will talk about boxing.

You make countless ****ty threads riding Pacquiao's **** or pathetically attempting to justify the catcweights placed on Pacuqioa's opponents to their detriment yet you claim to be in 'grown up land'.

Oh the irony.

The ****ing irony.

[boliodogs]

You are the one who is either lying or getting your facts wrong, Brother Jay. First Pacquiao has been in only two fights in which the catchweight benefited him.The 3rd Marquez fight was for Pacquiao's 147lb tittle so how the hell does dropping to 144 help Pacquiao? He could have insisted they fight at 147 and then it would not have been a catchweight fight but you would have complained even more then. The 144 weight limit was to benefit Marquez and he is the one who asked for it. It counts as a Marquez catchweight so don't get it twisted. It was Marquez saying "I can't win your 147lb tittle without help". Ray Leonard had three catchweight fights, all of which benefitted him. You say Pacquiao often weighed more on fight night than men he said were bigger than him. First Pacquiao never claim anything since he lets others do the talking and just fights. The only time he ever out weighed his opponent in that type of fight coming into the ring was the Oscar fight, which was at 147, the weight Oscar wanted and not a catch weight.You must know that Oscar could not rehydrate and lost two pounds instead of gaining the 15 pounds everyone expected him to gain. Are you saying Oscar is smaller than Pacquiao. Marquez outweighed him in the ring.Cotto outweighed him by 10 pounds in the ring. Margarito outweighed him by 17 pounds in the ring. It is not bait and switch. Pacquiao was much smaller than these guys except for Marquez who is slightly smaller than Pacquiao. Get your facts right.

[Brother Jay]

You are the one who is either lying or getting your facts wrong, Brother Jay. First Pacquiao has been in only two fights in which the catchweight benefited him.The 3rd Marquez fight was for Pacquiao's 147lb tittle so how the hell does dropping to 144 help Pacquiao? He could have insisted they fight at 147 and then it would not have been a catchweight fight but you would have complained even more then. The 144 weight limit was to benefit Marquez and he is the one who asked for it. It counts as a Marquez catchweight so don't get it twisted. It was Marquez saying "I can't win your 147lb tittle without help". Ray Leonard had three catchweight fights, all of which benefitted him. You say Pacquiao often weighed more on fight night than men he said were bigger than him. First Pacquiao never claim anything since he lets others do the talking and just fights. The only time he ever out weighed his opponent in that type of fight coming into the ring was the Oscar fight, which was at 147, the weight Oscar wanted and not a catch weight.You must know that Oscar could not rehydrate and lost two pounds instead of gaining the 15 pounds everyone expected him to gain. Are you saying Oscar is smaller than Pacquiao. Marquez outweighed him in the ring.Cotto outweighed him by 10 pounds in the ring. Margarito outweighed him by 17 pounds in the ring. It is not bait and switch. Pacquiao was much smaller than these guys except for Marquez who is slightly smaller than Pacquiao. Get your facts right.

First off, Manny Pacquiao failed to make weight for a bout way back in 1999. You are aware of this, no?

Next, without the Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would not even have a claim to a title in his last two divisions.

Those titles quasi-legitimized Manny's campaign above 135lbs in the eyes of fans who do not, or rather will not look closer to find the truth.

And regardless to what others think(respect to my man Reloaded), I believe that the DLH win was a product of a rehydration clause. How long has DLH been a pro? How many championship fights has this man been in for him to screw up the weight in his very last fight? DLH came in weighing 145lbs .. a weight he hadn't competed at in 7 years. I don't buy it.

Like it or not, without the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would have to rely on his win over Clottey and Mosley .. both of which the boxing world have labeled as bullshit cherry picking.

Know your boxing.

Manny has 40 straight fights against bums. Its shameful padding. Not only that, but 2 of those bums managed to knock Pacquiao out.

That means he has only 19 other fights in which to judge him. Of those 19 fights, Manny specifically targeted 6 of his opponents coming off career losses. The trend is undeniable. They are DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley. Two of which were catchweights AND one of which was a vacant title against a then banned cheater.

19-6=13. 13 fights in which to judge Pacquiao.

They are:

1-Barrera
2-Marquez - DRAW
3-Battery
4-Morales - LOSS
5-Velazquez
6-Morales
7-Larios
8-Morales
9-Solis
10-Barrera
11-Marquez
12-Diaz
13-Marquez

Now, outside of those 13 fights, I challenge you to show me a legitimate match not including any catchweights that would serve to enhance the value of Manny Pacquiao's legacy. The 6 that I mentioned were all coming off of career losses and therefore were ranked out of the top three .. the ranked spots that have all to do with legacy.

Like it or not, RANK AND CONDITION OF A FIGHTER'S OPPONENTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AS IT PERTAINS TO WEIGHING A LEGACY VALUE.

If anything else were relevant, then opinions would hold weight in a conversation about the merits of legacy. They don't.

I said that to say that Manny Pacquiao's star power comes from three specific matches: DLH, Cotto and Margarito.

Take those three wins away and Manny's biggest wins come over Barrera, Morales and Marquez(2 which are VERY debatable, the last was a robbery).

Now go ahead and make a case for Pacquiao being a superstar without those three wins when you take a good and honest look at the 13 fights he has since first fighting Barrera.

For sure Manny puts on great performances. That's undeniable as well. However great performances do not equal a great legacy when the opposition doesn't warrant the value given to enhance one's legacy.

[D4thincarnation]

First off, Manny Pacquiao failed to make weight for a bout way back in 1999. You are aware of this, no?

Next, without the Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would not even have a claim to a title in his last two divisions.

Those titles quasi-legitimized Manny's campaign above 135lbs in the eyes of fans who do not, or rather will not look closer to find the truth.

And regardless to what others think(respect to my man Reloaded), I believe that the DLH win was a product of a rehydration clause. How long has DLH been a pro? How many championship fights has this man been in for him to screw up the weight in his very last fight? DLH came in weighing 145lbs .. a weight he hadn't competed at in 7 years. I don't buy it.

Like it or not, without the DLH, Cotto and Margarito wins, Pacquiao would have to rely on his win over Clottey and Mosley .. both of which the boxing world have labeled as bullshit cherry picking.

Know your boxing.

Manny has 40 straight fights against bums. Its shameful padding. Not only that, but 2 of those bums managed to knock Pacquiao out.

That means he has only 19 other fights in which to judge him. Of those 19 fights, Manny specifically targeted 6 of his opponents coming off career losses. The trend is undeniable. They are DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley. Two of which were catchweights AND one of which was a vacant title against a then banned cheater.

19-6=13. 13 fights in which to judge Pacquiao.

They are:

1-Barrera
2-Marquez - DRAW
3-Battery
4-Morales - LOSS
5-Velazquez
6-Morales
7-Larios
8-Morales
9-Solis
10-Barrera
11-Marquez
12-Diaz
13-Marquez

Now, outside of those 13 fights, I challenge you to show me a legitimate match not including any catchweights that would serve to enhance the value of Manny Pacquiao's legacy. The 6 that I mentioned were all coming off of career losses and therefore were ranked out of the top three .. the ranked spots that have all to do with legacy.

Like it or not, RANK AND CONDITION OF A FIGHTER'S OPPONENTS ARE ALL THAT MATTERS AS IT PERTAINS TO WEIGHING A LEGACY VALUE.

If anything else were relevant, then opinions would hold weight in a conversation about the merits of legacy. They don't.

I said that to say that Manny Pacquiao's star power comes from three specific matches: DLH, Cotto and Margarito.

Take those three wins away and Manny's biggest wins come over Barrera, Morales and Marquez(2 which are VERY debatable, the last was a robbery).

Now go ahead and make a case for Pacquiao being a superstar without those three wins when you take a good and honest look at the 13 fights he has since first fighting Barrera.

For sure Manny puts on great performances. That's undeniable as well. However great performances do not equal a great legacy when the opposition doesn't warrant the value given to enhance one's legacy.

YAWN!!!!!

Stick to the topic at hand and don't hijack this thread with your agenda.