Is Mayweather the most well-rounded fighter ever?

[SWEETSCIENCE100]

anybody with minimal knowledge can name 10 WW's who would take marquez head off at the shoulders, especially the 35+ year old version.
sorry, but you're looking at a weak WW era and you dont even know it.


pacquiao is 100% an atg p4p puncher

but to say that he or floyd have ATG power or finishing ability at 147 is laughable

or, more appropriately, to say that floyd's inability to stop marquez in a WW fight is something that can be swept under the table because "nobody has stopped marquez," is laughable

plenty of WW's would have stopped marquez in that situation
floyd couldnt, because he's not a finisher or a big puncher.


floyd's flaws:
he's a modest puncher
he's not very agressive
he's got a low work rate in terms of the punches he throws (he makes up for it with the moves he uses defensively, but he's not a high volume puncher and that is a weakness,)
his chin is no better than good
and physically his strength is only about average.


that's not a well rounded fighter by any stretch in the historical sense
if you want to say he's one of the most well rounded fighters out there today you can go ahead, but to say that he's among the most well rounded of all time is something to laugh at.

This statement is 100% BS! Who has Pacquiao ko'ed that would make him such a ko puncher. All of his kos were against bums. Most not even known at all. Pacquaio is an over rated puncher. I bet when he fights Mayeather, Lil floyd will look like the power puncher in that fight. Pacquiao will be getting hurt over and over until koed or the towel comes flying in!

[New England]

This statement is 100% BS! Who has Pacquiao ko'ed that would make him such a ko puncher. All of his kos were against bums. Most not even known at all. Pacquaio is an over rated puncher. I bet when he fights Mayeather, Lil floyd will look like the power puncher in that fight. Pacquiao will be getting hurt over and over until koed or the towel comes flying in!

he's a former flyweight world champion with knock out victories over HOF level opposition from FW to WW

cotto (late ballot hall of famer.)
hatton (late ballot hall of famer.)
oscar (first ballot hall of famer.)
barrera (first ballot hall of famer.)
morales (first ballot hall of famer.)

and he hit hard enough for josh clottey to lay a total egg (huge WW, about as big a WW can get, with a dynamite chin.)
broke antonio margarito's face (one of the best chins ever, and a huge WW himself.)
and forced shane mosley to run away for 12 rounds and dropped him like a sack of bricks (another first/early ballot hall of famer. arguably a better chin than margarito.)


these are big guys that he's hurting. no former flyweight world champion has ever done anything like that. yes, there are holes that can be poked in each win, but they still amount to the resume of one hell of a puncher.

when it's all said and done pacquiao will be near the top of an all time punchers list. maybe in the top 25 or so. the guy is as gifted a puncher as any in the sport.


oh and for the record
i'm not a fanboy of either fighter
i think floyd will win a one sided decision against pacquiao if they ever fight. that's the general consensus among objective fight fans, and i happen to agree with it.

[Thread Stealer]

So because Whitaker beat Chavez that makes him over all a more well-rounded boxer?
you can be the most well rounded boxer in the world and still lose.

btw didn't Meldrick get stopped and pretty much get his career ended in that fight?

Nah, Taylor still had some success afterwards and had the 2nd best win of his career a year after the loss to Chavez.

Just another HBO Legendary Nights myth/exaggeration.

Mayweather is a great boxer but there have been many great, well-rounded, and versatile fighters.

[turbotime]

There are boxers who hit harder, who throw more punches, are braver, are better offensively.
The only thing FLoyd has got is defense, hes good at making you miss, so how does that equate to being well rounded? And dont go saying Floyd is good offensively, anyone who throws 15 punches round cannt be classed as offensive.

Its hard to gauge how good someone is who chooses not to fight often.

Mayweather has pretty good offense. It seems like you guys are only judging him from fights at 154 and 147. He was pretty unbeatable when he was the champ at 130.

[SWEETSCIENCE100]

he's a former flyweight world champion with knock out victories over HOF level opposition from FW to WW

cotto (late ballot hall of famer.)Weight drained, coming off Ko Loss!

hatton (late ballot hall of famer.) Coming off KO loss by Money Mayweather jr! Also coming out of rehab for ******* abuse, and depression, before

oscar (first ballot hall of famer.) Weight drained, coming off recent defeat by Money Mayweather jr at 168 pounds, and then forced to shrink down to 145 for Pacquiao.LOL

barrera (first ballot hall of famer.) Over the hill but still a good win.

morales (first ballot hall of famer.) Weight drained, recently defeated by

Raheem the dream. Pacquiao ran at full speed to avoid this cat.and he hit hard enough for josh clottey to lay a total egg (huge WW, about as big a WW can get, with a dynamite chin.)
broke antonio margarito's face (one of the best chins ever, and a huge WW himself.)
and forced shane mosley to run away for 12 rounds and dropped him like a sack of bricks (another first/early ballot hall of famer. arguably a better chin than margarito.)


these are big guys that he's hurting. no former flyweight world champion has ever done anything like that. yes, there are holes that can be poked in each win, but they still amount to the resume of one hell of a puncher.

when it's all said and done pacquiao will be near the top of an all time punchers list. maybe in the top 25 or so. the guy is as gifted a puncher as any in the sport.


oh and for the record
i'm not a fanboy of either fighter
i think floyd will win a one sided decision against pacquiao if they ever fight. that's the general consensus among objective fight fans, and i happen to agree with it.

54 Wins 52 Against bums, or old washed weight drained big names, 3 Losses, 2 Draws, 38 Knockouts
1995

Its really ashame when you can have this many bums on your record,multiple losses, contraversal wins, and PEDS attached to your name and casual fans still call you a champion ATG. LOL. 50 BUMS ON THE LEGENDARY pACMANS RECORD. lol

01-22 -- Edmund Enting Ignacio, Mindoro Occidental, Philippines, W 4
03-18 -- Pinoy Montejo, Mindoro Occidental, Philippines, W 4
05-01 -- Rocky Palma, Cavite, Philippines, W 6
07-01 -- Dele Decierto, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 2
08-03 -- Flash Simbajon, Mandaluyong, Philippines, W 6
09-16 -- Arman Rocil, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO 3
10-07 -- Lolito Laroa, Makati, Philippines, W 8
10-21 -- Renato Mendones, Puerto Princesa, Philippines, TKO 2
11-11 -- Rodulfo Fernandez, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 3
12-09 -- Rolando Tuyugon, Manila, Philippines, W 10


1996
01-13 -- Lito Torrejos, Paranaque City, Philippines, TKO 5
02-09 -- Rustico Torrecampo, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO by 3
04-27 -- Marlon Carillo, Manila, Philippines, W 10
05-20 -- Jun Medina, Manila, Philippines, TKO 4
06-15 -- Bert Batiller, General Santos City, Philippines, TKO 4
07-27 -- Ippo Gala, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 2
12-28 -- Sung-Yul Lee, Muntinlupa, Philippines, TKO 2


1997
03-08 -- Michael Luna, Muntinlupa, Philippines, KO 1
04-24 -- Wook-Ki Lee, Makati, Philippines, KO 1
05-30 -- Ariel Austria, Almendras, Philippines, TKO 6
06-26 -- Chokchai Chockvivat, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO 5
09-13 -- Melvin Magramo, Cebu, Philippines, W 10
12-06 -- Panomdej Or Yuthanakorn, South Cotabato, Philippines, KO 1


1998
05-18 -- Shin Terao, Tokyo, Japan, TKO 1
12-04 -- Chartchai Sasakul, ****kok, Thailand, TKO 8
(Won WBC Flyweight Title)


1999
02-20 -- Todd Makelin, Kidapawan, Philippines, TKO 3
04-24 -- Gabriel Mira, Quezon City, Philippines, KO 4
(Retained WBC Flyweight Title)
09-17 -- Medgoen Singsurat, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand, KO by 3
(Pacquiao failed to make weight, lost WBC Flyweight title)
12-18 -- Reynante Jamili, Manila, Philippines, TKO 2


2000
03-04 -- Arnel Barotillo, Manila, Philippines, KO 4
06-28 -- Seung-Kon Chae, Manila, Philippines, TKO 1
10-14 -- Nedal Hussein, Antipolo City, Philippines, TKO 10


2001
02-24 -- Tetsutora Senrima, Manila, Philippines, TKO 5
04-28 -- Wethya Sakmuangklang, Kidapawan City, Philippines, TKO 6
06-23 -- Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Las Vegas, NV, TKO 6
(Won IBF Super Bantamweight Title)
11-10 -- Agapito Sánchez, San Francisco, CA, Tech Draw 6
(For WBO Super Bantamweight Title)
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)


2002
06-08 -- Jorge Eliecer Julio, Memphis, TN, TKO 2
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)
10-26 -- Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym, Davao City, Philippines, KO 1
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)


2003
03-15 -- Serikzhan Yeshmangbetov, Manila, Philippines, TKO 5
07-26 -- Emmanuel Lucero, Los Angeles, CA, TKO 3
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)

[SWEETSCIENCE100]

Nah, Taylor still had some success afterwards and had the 2nd best win of his career a year after the loss to Chavez.

Just another HBO Legendary Nights myth/exaggeration.

Mayweather is a great boxer but there have been many great, well-rounded, and versatile fighters.

M.Taylor had 0% defense!

[Thread Stealer]

M.Taylor had 0% defense!

Taylor is not even in the discussion for most well-rounded fighters anyway.

[thuggery]

Yes, in my eyes he is.

Right now most boxers excel in one category. Brawlers for instance.

Mayweather has the tools to adapt in the ring, combine that with his high ring IQ and that's what gives him dominance and the ability to adapt to styles. Same goes for his defense. I've seen a few fighters try to do what he does against the ropes and fail miserably while Floyd perfects it.

[Poet682006]

54 Wins 52 Against bums, or old washed weight drained big names, 3 Losses, 2 Draws, 38 Knockouts
1995

Its really ashame when you can have this many bums on your record,multiple losses, contraversal wins, and PEDS attached to your name and casual fans still call you a champion ATG. LOL. 50 BUMS ON THE LEGENDARY pACMANS RECORD. lol

01-22 -- Edmund Enting Ignacio, Mindoro Occidental, Philippines, W 4
03-18 -- Pinoy Montejo, Mindoro Occidental, Philippines, W 4
05-01 -- Rocky Palma, Cavite, Philippines, W 6
07-01 -- Dele Decierto, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 2
08-03 -- Flash Simbajon, Mandaluyong, Philippines, W 6
09-16 -- Arman Rocil, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO 3
10-07 -- Lolito Laroa, Makati, Philippines, W 8
10-21 -- Renato Mendones, Puerto Princesa, Philippines, TKO 2
11-11 -- Rodulfo Fernandez, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 3
12-09 -- Rolando Tuyugon, Manila, Philippines, W 10


1996
01-13 -- Lito Torrejos, Paranaque City, Philippines, TKO 5
02-09 -- Rustico Torrecampo, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO by 3
04-27 -- Marlon Carillo, Manila, Philippines, W 10
05-20 -- Jun Medina, Manila, Philippines, TKO 4
06-15 -- Bert Batiller, General Santos City, Philippines, TKO 4
07-27 -- Ippo Gala, Mandaluyong, Philippines, TKO 2
12-28 -- Sung-Yul Lee, Muntinlupa, Philippines, TKO 2


1997
03-08 -- Michael Luna, Muntinlupa, Philippines, KO 1
04-24 -- Wook-Ki Lee, Makati, Philippines, KO 1
05-30 -- Ariel Austria, Almendras, Philippines, TKO 6
06-26 -- Chokchai Chockvivat, Mandaluyong, Philippines, KO 5
09-13 -- Melvin Magramo, Cebu, Philippines, W 10
12-06 -- Panomdej Or Yuthanakorn, South Cotabato, Philippines, KO 1


1998
05-18 -- Shin Terao, Tokyo, Japan, TKO 1
12-04 -- Chartchai Sasakul, ****kok, Thailand, TKO 8
(Won WBC Flyweight Title)


1999
02-20 -- Todd Makelin, Kidapawan, Philippines, TKO 3
04-24 -- Gabriel Mira, Quezon City, Philippines, KO 4
(Retained WBC Flyweight Title)
09-17 -- Medgoen Singsurat, Nakhon Si Thammarat, Thailand, KO by 3
(Pacquiao failed to make weight, lost WBC Flyweight title)
12-18 -- Reynante Jamili, Manila, Philippines, TKO 2


2000
03-04 -- Arnel Barotillo, Manila, Philippines, KO 4
06-28 -- Seung-Kon Chae, Manila, Philippines, TKO 1
10-14 -- Nedal Hussein, Antipolo City, Philippines, TKO 10


2001
02-24 -- Tetsutora Senrima, Manila, Philippines, TKO 5
04-28 -- Wethya Sakmuangklang, Kidapawan City, Philippines, TKO 6
06-23 -- Lehlohonolo Ledwaba, Las Vegas, NV, TKO 6
(Won IBF Super Bantamweight Title)
11-10 -- Agapito Sánchez, San Francisco, CA, Tech Draw 6
(For WBO Super Bantamweight Title)
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)


2002
06-08 -- Jorge Eliecer Julio, Memphis, TN, TKO 2
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)
10-26 -- Fahprakorb Rakkiatgym, Davao City, Philippines, KO 1
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)


2003
03-15 -- Serikzhan Yeshmangbetov, Manila, Philippines, TKO 5
07-26 -- Emmanuel Lucero, Los Angeles, CA, TKO 3
(Retained IBF Super Bantamweight Title)

And when was the last time Floyd fought a quality in-prime opponent? '98? Mayweather fights washed-up "names" like De La Hoya and Mosley and non-en****** like Baldomir, but here you are slamming Pacquiao for doing the same damn thing. Pot meet kettle.....mindless nuthuggery at it's finest :rolleyes9:

Poet

[B.U.R.N.E.R]

anybody with minimal knowledge can name 10 WW's who would take marquez head off at the shoulders, especially the 35+ year old version.
sorry, but you're looking at a weak WW era and you dont even know it.

I dont know this is a weak WW era seriously? Who doesnt know that bro?

pacquiao is 100% an atg p4p puncher

but to say that he or floyd have ATG power or finishing ability at 147 is laughable

Where in my post did I say Floyd had ATG finishing power? I never said that.

or, more appropriately, to say that floyd's inability to stop marquez in a WW fight is something that can be swept under the table because "nobody has stopped marquez," is laughable

plenty of WW's would have stopped marquez in that situation
floyd couldnt, because he's not a finisher or a big puncher.

That was YOUR example which I used against you. It was weak in general. So what he didnt stop JMM. Who has? The dude has a beard.

Floyd just knocked Ortiz out. The guy has some pop in his punches. He buckled Oscars legs a few times a well. 2 large men. Hell what is this is 4th, 5th weight class. He has enough pop to gain respect from guys that can crack like Mosley, Ortiz, etc.

floyd's flaws:
he's a modest puncher
he's not very agressive
he's got a low work rate in terms of the punches he throws (he makes up for it with the moves he uses defensively, but he's not a high volume puncher and that is a weakness,)
his chin is no better than good
and physically his strength is only about average.


that's not a well rounded fighter by any stretch in the historical sense
if you want to say he's one of the most well rounded fighters out there today you can go ahead, but to say that he's among the most well rounded of all time is something to laugh at.

Every fighter has flaws. The TS asked about being well rounded not which fighter is flawless. How does that equate to "not well rounded"? And some of your "flaws" arent really flaws at all just style critiques.

"Modest puncher" ? Says who? Again every fighter Floyd has laid hands said he hit harder than what hes given credit for.

"Not aggresive" How is that a flaw? Again you are talking about style. Why does a defensive minded counter puncher need to be aggresive again? Thats like nit picking that Dwight Howard doesnt make enough 3 pointers. Mind you hes a 6-11 Center.

Same concept here. Floyd doesnt need to be aggressive hes a "counter" puncher. Thats the whole point. Hes smart about his punch placement hes not just throwing for the fucc of it to just be "aggressive" everything he does has a purpose behind it. Which is why hes the most accurate fighter ANYONE has ever seen in the compubox era.

Next thing, how is not being a "high volume puncher" a weakness? Again hes a defense first counter puncher. "Why does he need to be a high volume puncher? How can that be a weakness? Thats his style.

When he wants to and when he has to he turns up the heat and lays it on people. Ask ****m Richardson, Mosley, Hatton, Judah, Ortiz, etc.

His chin is no better than good? Cmon. When has he been stopped. When he has been hurt and it lingered throughout a fight. When has a ref been on the verge on stopping a fight because Floyd was severely hurt? And again that doesnt mean hes well rounded. Thats silly,. The guy rarely gets hurt and has never been even close to being knocked out.

His physical strength is average? Dude again this is his 4th weight class. His strength is underrated as hell. When have you EVER seen Floyd manhandled and thrown around the ring like a rag doll. EVER? Its nevr happened. When he had to outmuscle Hatton he did it. Hell even Oscar said he was strong as **** and was surprised how strong he was in the pocket and in clinches. Hell Floyd next to Berto is the strongest WW.

Hes one of the greatest fighters and most well rounded fighters ever. Ever. And today he has no match in any division. That alone is enough to hold him up here with other great legends weak boxing era or not.