Why is Ray Leonard not considered the GOAT?

[BoxingGenius27]

no, really, its not. not at all.

Honestly, I'm trying to enjoy my Holiday's lol

I don't even feel like arguing with you guys today... I'm not saying one is greater than the other, but if I really wanted too I can make a case for all 4 fighters (i.e Hagler, Hopkins, Toney, and Hearns), which is why I say it's highly debatable....

But, if some people believe that Hearns is hands down greater than Toney and Hagler is hands down greater than Hopkins and it's not even "debatable", then I stand corrected. You're right.

[SCtrojansbaby]

but roy NEVER fought anyone as good as hearns, leonard, hagler & duran. Hagler >>>>> Hopkins. Hearns >>>>> Toney. Etc.

LMAO thats funny

[Thread Stealer]

I love Ray for sure but honestly 2 reasons. The fight in Montreal when he lost to Duran and he fought way past his prime and had some pretty substandard outcomes. I think he lost by ko in some of his fights :/ So that has a way of tarnishing your legacy.

But dude had mad skill avenged all his losses and fought some of the best there ever was at the div. I just think when he lost to Duran in the way he lost it showed he could be goated into a fight when most ATG in the higher echelon would not have been, IMO. But dude is a beast! He would be running **** now is he was around! fa SHO!

I credit Duran for doing a good job of cutting off the ring and getting to Leonard. There's a lot of talk about how Duran goaded Leonard into a close quarters bout with his mind games. It may be true to an extent, but Leonard really didn't fight all that out of character in Montreal. He fought more out of character in the rematch and against Hagler by being so fleet footed, dancing and moving, throwing quick flurries which often were arm punches. That just showed his versatility.

First and foremost, Leonard was a flat footed boxer who circled the middle of the ring, fought in a very relaxed style, put more mustard on his shots, stayed within range.

[ИATAS]

Awww man, I think that's highly debatable...

I'm not even a Hopkins fan like that, but I know some people who would rate Hopkins on the same level as Hagler.

When Roy fought Hopkins. Do you think that version of Hopkins was as good as the version of Hagler that Ray fought? (and keep in mind ray was coming out of retirement and went up two weight classes). I think everyone agrees Hopkins was pretty green at the time. And while Hagler was probably not still in his prime, he was still one badass mofo and the king of the MW division. Hopkins had never won a title yet and no one really thought that much of him at the time, he was still learning his craft.

Let's see Hearns and Toney??

Man, that's a tough one. I think Toney was the better technical fighter though. Again, that's debatable.

I don't think it's debatable at all. Toney was very technical, but also very inconsistent.

Honestly, at the end of the day, I think we'll have to wait until Hopkins, Toney, and Jones all retire to see how they'll be looked back on just like people did with Hagler, Hearns, and Leonard.

Sure, no doubt. Just a good discussion though nonetheless

[SCtrojansbaby]

maybe I read this wrong. You're saying Roy Jones has a better resume then Leonards??????

A level wins
RJJ - Hopkins Toney
SRL - Duran Hagler Hearns Benitez

A- level wins
RJJ - Hill Ruiz
SRL - none

B+ level wins
RJJ - Gonzalez Malinga Castro McCallum Sosa Johnson
SRL - Kalule Lalonde

Leonard has 2 more A+ ATG wins but Roy has WAAAAAAAY more depth

why don't you rate old fighters?

Not enough full fights available to watch

[Thread Stealer]

I simply stated my opinion....and I know it would be one that most would disagree with, even before I posted.

With that said, don't you think that same argument could have been made against Duran when he was still at LW, prior to his first fight against SRL?

I know none of them fight the same, but I can easily see the "SRL is too big, too skilled" and SRL is the reason Duran will/would stay at LW because SRL is too good.

Sorry I simply don't buy that argument about them not moving to WW because of him, although I could see SRL beating both if they fought.

When Duran left lightweight, Leonard was just an up-and-comer. He was popular because of the Olympics and his promotion/personality, but hadn't proven himself as a top fighter. Duran left lightweight in early 1978 after the rubber match with Dejesus.

Ray at the time only had a few pro bouts.

[D4thincarnation]

IMO he should get more recognition at the best ever. Ray was a master in the ring. Please give me a reason why he is not the GOAT

Definite top 20.

Many reason, but No.1 would be Sugar Ray Robinson.

[ИATAS]

A level wins
RJJ - Hopkins Toney
SRL - Duran Hagler Hearns Benitez

A- level wins
RJJ - Hill Ruiz
SRL - none

B+ level wins
RJJ - Gonzalez Malinga Castro McCallum Sosa Johnson
SRL - Kalule Lalonde

Leonard has 2 more A+ ATG wins but Roy has WAAAAAAAY more depth



Not enough full fights available to watch

wow that's one way of looking at lmao!

Ruis is not an A- win. Sure Jones when up in weight but it's John Ruiz. Ruiz. Ruiz! It's only considered a great win because jones when up in weight. Toney whooped his ass too, doesn't mean that's an A- win for Toney. Good win but it's still John Ruiz at the end of the day who out of all those heayvweights at the time if a former MW is going to fight a heavyweight he's the guy to do it against.

Jones also has like 25 more fights or whatever then Leonard did

[Ring Leader]

A level wins
RJJ - Hopkins Toney
SRL - Duran Hagler Hearns Benitez

A- level wins
RJJ - Hill Ruiz
SRL - none

B+ level wins
RJJ - Gonzalez Malinga Castro McCallum Sosa Johnson
SRL - Kalule Lalonde

Leonard has 2 more A+ ATG wins but Roy has WAAAAAAAY more depth



Not enough full fights available to watch

[BoxingGenius27]

When Roy fought Hopkins. Do you think that version of Hopkins was as good as the version of Hagler that Ray fought?

When you put it like that, I can see where you're coming from.