Comments Thread For: Team Bute: Hopkins a Good "Plan B" if No Ward, Froch

[BoxingGenius27]

Has anyone seen Rocks!, ooops, I mean FlinStones!?

You know, the guy that was yelling obsene insults at posters for disagreeing when he said Bute "deserves" this title shot at Ward; especially after Bute already acknowledged that the big bad "GLEN JOHNSON" is his best opponent to this date?

Where is that Rocks! guy, I'd like to have a word with him.

[PEBBLES!]

Try using the quote facility correctly next time and you won't need the garish bold red.

The Miranda that Bute and Ward fought, was not the beast that Pavlik beat and Green knocked down. The fact that you even mentioned him as a honorable opponent shows you don't know as much as you think you do.

Did I say that the Miranda Bute fought was the best version of Miranda? I mentioned him as one of Bute's notables and as one part of an overall solid body of work, same way as I'd mention him on Ward's list. Try again.

Then regarding Bute vs Johnson (the win you call solid), Let's take a look at how many people felt Johnson was a BS fight "at the time". Don't take my word for it, see for yourself

I see a polarized response in that (short) thread. But, according to you, the opinions of some people on a boxing forum don't count, right? Or does that only work when the vast majority of people on the boxing forum think that Bute "deserves" to fight Ward?

Newsflash, buddy - the majority of people on boxing forums period think that Bute "deserves" to fight Ward.

Even this version of Johnson is a decent addition to anyone's CV. Certainly a better addition than Allan Green, who's never done anything notable at world class and whom Johnson stomped.

Bika happened like 4 years ago and Andrade happened like 2 years ago; which were descent wins to begin with. LMAO @ Bute's resume being better than all SS contestants currently. He hasn't even beaten one undefeated challenger yet. You guys get your rocks off at saying stuff like "Bute beat Fighter A better than anyone else that "already" beat Fighter A". What type of proud accomplishment is that?

So? Kessler happened two years ago. Big whoop.

I said that Bute's CV is the best out of all the SMW contenders that Ward hasn't yet fought. He's the next worthy challenger out there to Ward with Kessler and Froch dealt with already.

And when have I made a remark that remotely resembles the bold?

If you want to play the intelligent conversationalist, at least quote my comments accurately and refer to things I've actually said.

The SS is a rather unique circumstance that needs someone to "think outside the box" and make exceptions for what the norm has been previously regarding challenging for the title... You're referring to what challengers have done in the past to get title shots as if there hasn't been a problem in boxing with fighters getting undeserving shots at the title. Off the top of my head, just look at what's going on with Pac and Canelo and how Mosley and Cintron got undeserving shots.

LMFAO at you imposing your own contrived interpretation of what the Super Six should mean upon the sport after the tournament has concluded. The Super Six was nothing more than a vehicle to get some guys from an exciting division to fight. Now it's over. Guys still have to fight. Bute is Ward's best challenger in his weight class, period. Deal with it.

Like I said, What do most contenders have before they get their shots at Champs, for that matter? Typically, they have a bunch of solid wins and a bunch of padding, just like Bute. Just like Bute is deserving now of a shot at Ward's Championship, Kelly Pavlik was deserving of getting a shot at Taylor's middleweight Championship 4 and a half years ago, because he was the best qualified of all the next guys in line (notwithstanding the fact that his CV was unspectacular). You retort with a pathetic spin attempt and abject avoidance of the issue, which is that Bute is the best qualified guy left out there for Ward. He's not an ancient Mosley coming of a draw with Sergio Mora, he's not Margarito coming off a lengthy suspension, a brutal KO loss and a tuneup down in Mexico, he's not Cintron whose recent career has just been a string of calamities, he's a top rated contender with the best credentials out of all the guys at SMW that Ward hasn't already fought. What do Pacquiao's and Canelo's opposition have to do with anything being discussed here? You really think Bute isn't more accomplished and worthy a challenger than the guys they've been criticized for fighting? That you even made the comparison between those situations and this one singles you out as a crass idiot.

Why do you keep referring to Bute going up in weight to fight Cloud like it's some major accomplishment as if they weren't "already" previously negotiating before Bute fought Johnson? You're acting like Bute didn't already say that if he doesn't fight Ward, he's looking to fight Hopkins next. Why don't you email Team Bute and tell them what they need and don't need to do.

You're beyond dense. I'm saying that it is in no way mandatory or incumbent upon Bute to fight a top ranking guy from a higher weight-class in order to warrant a shot at the man in his own division. Get it? He's a SMW. Like jro13 said, if he wishes to go up to LHW and fight Cloud, that's fine, but the two things have nothing to do with each other - he doesn't need to fight Cloud in order to "deserve" a shot at Ward. At all. Period.

It seems you should be the one emailing Team Bute with your thoughts on what feats are imperative for him to first accomplish before he "deserves" a fight with Ward.

And I didn't say a single word about Hopkins, FWIW. Try making sense instead of making strawmen.

But I feel like the SS winner's resume is solid and Bute's need's a lot of work.

Umm, isn't this classically/archetypally the case between Champion and challenger? Yeah, I believe so. The challenger doesn't need to have a body of work on a par with the Champion in order to be a worthy challenger and never has had. If that was true, hardly anybody would have ever gotten their shot. So why does it all of a sudden become a mandatory requirement, ie. that the challenger must have a body of work approximately equal to the Champion, in this case?

Again, you make no sense.

You do realize that Bute said Glen Johnson was "a major step up in competition", right. LMAO you're sitting here saying Bute's resume is up to par, but in 2011 Glen Johnson is a major step up in competition? LOL According to Bute himself, Johnson is better than all the guys you named.

Who cares what Bute said? We're basing our opinions off what guys say when selling a fight now? You're desperate if you're going there.

I'm saying (and I'm among the vast majority of rational observers in doing so) that Bute's body of work to date is good enough to warrant a shot at Ward's Championship. Which you haven't raised one valid point to disprove.

Once again, if everyone knew all they had to do was stay home and beat scrubs in order to fight the winner of the tourny, don't you think it's rather ****** of them to enter the tourny in the 1st place? There's no spin to it. That is a fact. What the heck is the point of having a tourny in the first place when all a fighter has to do is let the contestants beat on each other so he can get the winner?

Yeah, the same weak spin on events, once again. Bute wasn't in the tournament, he was negotiating and signed to a rematch with Andrade on HBO. Big whoop. Tournament is over. They may go seperate ways for a while for whatever reason, but Bute is still the best qualified guy left out there for Ward at 168 as of right now - that's why the vast majority of boxing fans and pundits want the fight. Deal with it.

Anyway, see my answers above to the rest of the of your "stellar" post

Saw them, annihilated the silliness with ease. Next.

[PEBBLES!]

Interesting quotes about the much "deserving" Lucien Bute's resume:

At least two of those three guys you're quoting think that Bute is the most worthy guy left out there to challenge Ward, regardless.

Has anyone seen Rocks!, ooops, I mean FlinStones!?

You know, the guy that was yelling obsene insults at posters for disagreeing when he said Bute "deserves" this title shot at Ward; especially after Bute already acknowledged that the big bad "GLEN JOHNSON" is his best opponent to this date?

Where is that Rocks! guy, I'd like to have a word with him.

"Obscene"? I said you're a ****** and an idiot.

Funny how you're accusing others of throwing out juvenilia, while making remedial, primary-school level plays on words and thinking you're witty.

[turbotime]

If I was the SS contestants, I'd be pissed right now.

Abraham: Had I known all I had to do was fight in Germany against a few nobodies while the SS was going on in order to get an automatic shot at the SS winner, I would've never joined the tournament to begin with. WTF was I thinking?

Lmao, he was thinking he was going to beat up on some American rookies was what he was thinking.

[PEBBLES!]

Lmao, he was thinking he was going to beat up on some American rookies was what he was thinking.

IKR.

[BoxingGenius27]

Did I say that the Miranda Bute fought was the best version of Miranda? I mentioned him as one of Bute's notables and as one part of an overall solid body of work, same way as I'd mention him on Ward's list. Try again.


What's wrong with you? The fact that you're mentioning an over the hill, past prime Miranda in the first place, shows that his resume is rediculously weak... Miranda wasn't a good win for Bute or Ward... No, just stop it.


I see a polarized response in that (short) thread. But, according to you, the opinions of some people on a boxing forum don't count, right? Or does that only work when the vast majority of people on the boxing forum think that Bute "deserves" to fight Ward?

Newsflash, buddy - the majority of people on boxing forums period think that Bute "deserves" to fight Ward.


Do you need me to show you longer threads of fans yelling "foul" when the Bute vs Johnson fight was made? Of course not, you don't even care what comes out of Bute's mouth about himself let alone anyone else lol


Even this version of Johnson is a decent addition to anyone's CV. Certainly a better addition than [B]Allan Green, who's never done anything notable at world class and whom Johnson stomped.

Now, I really know that you have no idea WTH, you're talking about. But this is good because I like making psuedo experts like you and Jro look ****** when you don't know what you're talking about and instead of agreeing that you're wrong, would rather get backed into a corner and embarrased more.

Regarding Allan Green, do you even know what Green's status as a fighter was when he fought Ward or are you just going to boxrec? Maybe you're just looking at Green's loss to Johnson and saying "he was always a bum", like everyone else does everytime someone loses around here.

At the time, you do realize that Green's only loss came to an undefeated Miranda when he was terminally ill during the fight. He still managed to knock Miranda down in the fight.

Green then bounced back and had pretty good wins against Simms and KO'd De Leon.

At the time when Green fought Ward, Green was a solid opponent. Johnson fought Green when Green was coming off a loss. Two different fighters.




So? Kessler happened two years ago. Big whoop.

Froch just happen a few days ago... Great now you're discrediting Ward's record. I find that rather interesting considering how you feel about Bute's.


LMFAO at you imposing your own contrived interpretation of what the Super Six should mean upon the sport after the tournament has concluded. The Super Six was nothing more than a vehicle to get some guys from an exciting division to fight. Now it's over. Guys still have to fight. Bute is Ward's best challenger in his weight class, period. Deal with it.


Excuse me for being able to think outside the box and not be some robot, solely going off rankings like yourself. You're sitting over here trying to give a guy a title shot when his best win is against Glen Johnson coming off a loss. Brilliant idea, my friend.


Like I said, What do most contenders have before they get their shots at Champs, for that matter? Typically, they have a bunch of solid wins and a bunch of padding, just like Bute. Just like Bute is deserving now of a shot at Ward's Championship, Kelly Pavlik was deserving of getting a shot at Taylor's middleweight Championship 4 and a half years ago, because he was the best qualified of all the next guys in line (notwithstanding the fact that his CV was unspectacular). You retort with a pathetic spin attempt and abject avoidance of the issue, which is that Bute is the best qualified guy left out there for Ward. He's not an ancient Mosley coming of a draw with Sergio Mora, he's not Margarito coming off a lengthy suspension, a brutal KO loss and a tuneup down in Mexico, he's not Cintron whose recent career has just been a string of calamities, he's a top rated contender with the best credentials out of all the guys at SMW that Ward hasn't already fought. What do Pacquiao's and Canelo's opposition have to do with anything being discussed here? You really think Bute isn't more accomplished and worthy a challenger than the guys they've been criticized for fighting? That you even made the comparison between those situations and this one singles you out as a crass idiot.


Once again Stoned, you type a million text on something I already answered. I can see if you're bringing new news to the table, but you're saying the same exact thing you said yesterday. Copy and pasting are we lol




The challenger doesn't need to have a body of work on a par with the Champion in order to be a worthy challenger and never has had. If that was true, hardly anybody would have ever gotten their shot. So why does it all of a sudden become a mandatory requirement, ie. that the challenger must have a body of work approximately equal to the Champion, in this case?

Once again, here's a clear example of Stoney doing too much talking and not reading. If you would've followed my instructions yesterday, you would've saved me sometime reading and more time that it took you to type it.

What part of the SS tourny is something you have to use critical thinking on and not apply what happened before in boxing to this because the SS isn't something you see every year. But noooo, leave it up to Rocks! to be robotic.


Who cares what Bute said? We're basing our opinions off what guys say when selling a fight now? You're desperate if you're going there.

I'm saying (and I'm among the vast majority of rational observers in doing so) that Bute's body of work to date is good enough to warrant a shot at Ward's Championship. Which you haven't raised one valid point to disprove.


I saw the bold and couldn't read anymore. If Bute called you and told you that he understands why Ward and Co thinks he's not title worthy, you wouldn't even understand. Great job at embarrasing yourself once again. But who cares, especially when you don't care if you embarrass yourself and look silly or not.

Yeah, the same weak spin on events, once again. Bute wasn't in the tournament, he was negotiating and signed to a rematch with Andrade on HBO. Big whoop. Tournament is over. They may go seperate ways for a while for whatever reason, but Bute is still the best qualified guy left out there for Ward at 168 as of right now - that's why the vast majority of boxing fans and pundits want the fight. Deal with it.

You have the best way of thinking, I'll be the first to say. According to you; No SS invite = Automatic title shot... Brilliant sir!

No spin to it, my friend. Andre Dirrel should've stayed home and fought in Michigan had he known all he had to do was sit on the sidelines in order to get a shot at the winner.


Saw them, annihilated the silliness with ease. Next

LMAO whatever you want to believe.

Ooooooohhhh Stoooooneeeeeey, come out to plaaaaaaayyyy

[paulf]

How does Bute not deserve the shot? He's the only A-level guy running around 168 (with a title no less) that Ward hasn't faced now that the Super Six smoke has cleared. Not counting Dirrell, because he's nuts and doesn't want to fight Andre. I'm not saying I want to see Mayweather/Senchenko or anything, but unification bouts are a good thing, embrace them. Remember back when we used to have "undisputed champions?"

If Kessler beats Steglitz, Ward could easily become undisputed at 168 if he beats Bute and then rematches Kessler. Or, Bute or Kessler could end up with all the titles (unlikely). I personally don't see it happening because boxing is indeed full of **** and the game is played differently these days, but who doesn't want to see one guy be "the guy" in his division??

Champions fighting other champions = Win.

[BoxingGenius27]

How does Bute not deserve the shot?

Why are you coming in here asking questions that have been answered over 20 something pages, multiple times?

Do you think you're the first one to ask that question while we're sitting here at post two hundred and twenty something?

How about trying to pick up where someone else left off, but maybe I'm asking too much of Bute title shot supporters.... If they can't understand how to pick up where someone else left off in a thread with 200 posts, how can I expect them to understand why Bute doesn't deserve a shot? .

[BoxingGenius27]

Bute definitely "deserves" to fight Ward at this moment in time, period. He's right behind Ward in the division. ******, ****** discussion.

Because his resume is the best resume out of all the relevant 168'ers that Ward hasn't already beaten (unless you count Johnson, whom Bute just beat). Who do you think Ward should be fighting? WHO?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=527821

Ward's been dealing with generally better comp, and his last two fights have been outside Oakland.

Nothing would give me greater pleasure than to see Ward slap the **** out of the ******, but the other part of me thinks Bute should have to earn his spanking from Andre. I mean, past-prime Kessler coming off an injury layoff isn't too much to ask, is it?

B*tch-ass Bute should have to beat a guy like Kessler first.

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/sh...3#post11580093

1. I never liked the idea of Bute being guaranteed an immediate shot at the winner, anyway. I feel he should have to go through tests like Froch and Kessler first (with Kessler out so long and past his prime, I'd venture that Froch likely provides the greater test at this time, and two nights with Carl will definitely give Bute a rough time).

I guess your multiple personalities have been in effect the last few days

[BoxingGenius27]

Bumpa dee bump bump