Comments Thread For: Sergio Martinez: Pacquiao is a Fake Pound for Pound King

[The Big Dunn]

Again unfair critiscm and grasping at straws in desperation. Pac beats people suited to him? So who has a style in the 147 who would beat Pac? So how far can we go with this debate? So i suppose SRL wont get credit for beating Hagler because hagler was suited to SRL? I suppose Ali wont get credit for beating Foreman, because Foreman was suited to Alis dancing style and lets face it, Foreman was a mummy impersonator? Its nit picking at the very highest level. Will JMM not get credit for taking Pac right to the wire cos Pac was made for JMMs style? Face it Cotto was the man at WW, and Pac should get massive credit. Anything else is nit picking, which is what haters do. Ths Pac beats people suited to his style is the biggest pile of poop going and people should save their breath even bothering debating it.



Why do you keep ignoring the issue? Is Sergio fair with his Pac is a fake p4p king assesment? Sergio would expect credit if he beat Lucian Bute or Carl Froch, so why be hipocritical in putting Pac down?

But cotto wasn't the man at 147. He never was. He was at best #2 behind floyd. This ultimately is why manny gets the backlash you complain about. Its because fans like you post outright lies to inflate manny. Manny beat cotto, the #2 ww at the time. Good win.

I think you confuse "credit" with "too much credit". Manny gets credit for beating Josh Clottey. That said, I don't think that win propels him up the mythical ATG or P4P lists. Its a good win over a ranked ww.

The SRL and Ali stuff makes no sense so I will let it go.

As for sergio's assessment, of course he is reacting to Manny's change regarding 150 lb fight. His putdown of manny is somewhat emotional we agree. But many others think Manny lost again to JMM (not me) and his wins have come against the same style of fighter, slower and come forward. His criticism is fair, the wording is probably too strong.

[The Big Dunn]

While I agree with what you said about only dominating certain styles, that can be said about anyone. Funny, how the style that Pac seems to do the best against (come forward pressure fighters) is the style Floyd has had the most trouble with (in relative terms).

Floyd also looks best when he's fighting flat-footed guys that he out-speeds, so why is that a negative for Pac but ignored when for Floyd?

Madsweeney

Its not a "negative" but a mitigating factor because when he fights opponents who choose to box,(morales, JMM, shane) he doesn't perform the same. Floyd, to this point, performs consistently no matter what style he fights.

Manny's box office appeal begins with his ability to knock out or dominate bigger men. Reasonable fans can agree manny hasn't produced a dominant KO going against good boxers who employ movement. Floyd's appeal is his skills which reasonable fans can agree he showed against ALL his opponents, no matter their fighting style.

[treason1]

But cotto wasn't the man at 147. He never was. He was at best #2 behind floyd. This ultimately is why manny gets the backlash you complain about. Its because fans like you post outright lies to inflate manny. Manny beat cotto, the #2 ww at the time. Good win.

mayweather was retired!!!! so in effect manny DID beat the #1 WW !!!!! then he beat clottey who was good work and a tough tough opponent !!!!!! clottey went to war with cotto and margarito who were at the top of the food chain !!!! he desereves credit for that !!!!!!!!

[GRUSTLER]

pac moved up in weight from the hatton fight, about 6-7 lbs to fight cotto.

however, it seems that it was only a disadvantage for cotto lol...


people just hate pacquiao because he is the ppv king, and has singlehandedly generated over 50% of 2011's ppv sales. Additionaly, he is the reigning fighter of the decade.

You guys love to recreate history. Before Pac fought Cotto at 145 he fought Oscar De La Hoya at the full WW limit. Why fight Oscar at 147 and not Cotto?

[The Big Dunn]

mayweather was retired!!!! so in effect manny DID beat the #1 WW !!!!! then he beat clottey who was good work and a tough tough opponent !!!!!! clottey went to war with cotto and margarito who were at the top of the food chain !!!! he desereves credit for that !!!!!!!!

Manny deserves all the credit one gets for beating the 5th or 6th best ww in the world.

Them "going to war" is because they are equally matched come forward opponents, not because they wre great fighters.

[GRUSTLER]

mayweather was retired!!!! so in effect manny DID beat the #1 WW !!!!! then he beat clottey who was good work and a tough tough opponent !!!!!! clottey went to war with cotto and margarito who were at the top of the food chain !!!! he desereves credit for that !!!!!!!!

Ummmmm...... Sugar Shane Mosley was the #1 guy at WW and before him it was Antonio Margarito, who TKO Miguel Cotto who Shane KO'd. Cotto was NEVER #1 at WW.

[bojangles1987]

Madsweeney

Its not a "negative" but a mitigating factor because when he fights opponents who choose to box,(morales, JMM, shane) he doesn't perform the same. Floyd, to this point, performs consistently no matter what style he fights.

Manny's box office appeal begins with his ability to knock out or dominate bigger men. Reasonable fans can agree manny hasn't produced a dominant KO going against good boxers who employ movement. Floyd's appeal is his skills which reasonable fans can agree he showed against ALL his opponents, no matter their fighting style.

Yes he has. Not lately, because he hasn't been fighting them, but earlier in his career he beat the crap out of boxers. It's not just the style, he have to be a great fighter in your own right, and Morales and Marquez are obviously great, great fighters.

[bojangles1987]

Sergio, please, for your sake and the sake of boxing, start fighting again and stop talking. There's plenty of fights out there for you, if Pac, Floyd, Cotto, and Chavez don't want you that doesn't mean you have to stall your career waiting for them to change their mind.

[WESS]

But cotto wasn't the man at 147. He never was. He was at best #2 behind floyd. This ultimately is why manny gets the backlash you complain about. Its because fans like you post outright lies to inflate manny. Manny beat cotto, the #2 ww at the time. Good win.

I think you confuse "credit" with "too much credit". Manny gets credit for beating Josh Clottey. That said, I don't think that win propels him up the mythical ATG or P4P lists. Its a good win over a ranked ww.

The SRL and Ali stuff makes no sense so I will let it go.

As for sergio's assessment, of course he is reacting to Manny's change regarding 150 lb fight. His putdown of manny is somewhat emotional we agree. But many others think Manny lost again to JMM (not me) and his wins have come against the same style of fighter, slower and come forward. His criticism is fair, the wording is probably too strong.

end there... nothing more should be said...

People want to overly hype Cotto just because Pac beat him.. How easy it is for people to forget that Pac has NEVER EVER EVER fought "THE MAN" at WW.

In fact the last "man" was Mosley and everyone knows Pac ducked him twice when Mosley was "the man". Let alone Mayweather who Pac ducked to fight an in house loser like Clottey who has NEVER been "the man".


Cotto beat Mosley in a close fight where many people thought it could have went either way or a draw. Then Cotto went on to get destroyed by Margarito and Mosley destroyed Margarito, thus making him the #1 WW in the world. Let's recall that Pac ducked this guy twice while Mayweather stepped up and fought "the man".

Also as of Jan 12th 2006, The Ring Magazine Welterweight rankings were....

WELTERWEIGHTS
Weight Limit: 147 pounds
Champ: CARLOS BALDOMIR Argentina 42-9-6 (12)
1. ANTONIO MARGARITO Mexico 32-4 (23)
2. ZAB JUDAH Brooklyn, NY 34-3 (25)
3. CORY SPINKS St. Louis, MO 34-3 (11)
4. SHANE MOSLEY Pomona, CA 41-4 (35)
5. LUIS COLLAZO Queens, NY 26-1 (12)
6. THOMAS DAMGAARD Denmark 37-0 (27)
7. KERMIT CINTRON Reading, PA 25-1 (23)
8. JOSE ANTONIO RIVERA Worcester, MA 37-4-1(24)
9. OKTAY URKAL Germany 36-3 (11)
10. DAVID ESTRADA Chicago, IL 18-2 (9)

Mayweather was ranked #1 P4P at this time and came into the WW division and beat 2 of the top 3 guys right off the bat. When is the last time Manny went into a division and beat the top 2 guys or 2 of the top 3 guys in a division? This is WHY respected CHAMPIONS aka "the man" at MW is calling Pac a fake and even *******s are now calling Pac a fraud.

The fact is, Floyd has fought and beat more lineal and current champions than Pac, his reign of supremacy is twice as long as Pac's and never lost. Floyd also dismantled and shut down the last known fighter (JMM) to give Pacquiao a lot problems (at WW) to say the least.

Pac is living off his 2009 CW win over Cotto. A very solid win but like I said, Cotto is not that great but I like him and give Pac full credit for beating him but then again, that's not saying much.

[The Big Dunn]

Yes he has. Not lately, because he hasn't been fighting them, but earlier in his career he beat the crap out of boxers. It's not just the style, he have to be a great fighter in your own right, and Morales and Marquez are obviously great, great fighters.

Not lately, because he hasn't been fighting them

Since he left Murad and went to TR, they have smartly protected and enhanced their investment by limiting manny's exsposure to boxers with movement. I think that is a fair point to make.

Morales and JMM are great fighters. But lets be real. JMM was a 9-1 underdog who was matched against manny a 3rd time in the hopes manny would finally produce a stellar performance against a boxer with movement.

He failed to meet te "floyd standard" of looking great against all opposition.