Comments Thread For: Sergio Martinez: Pacquiao is a Fake Pound for Pound King

[Tamis!]

Manny has never fought or defeated the #1 ww in the world. Hugh that is a correct statement, not an opinion. Its fair to point that out, especially when comparing him against other fighters who have actually fought and defeated the #1 ww. Thats not criticism, thats factual. People rating or overating him p4p is an opinion.

You don't know what credit Sergio would get. It depends on the context and what happens. In manny's case, the fight with cotto did occur, and it was at 145 lbs, so you have context. Essentially you are comparing something you THINK will happen with something that DID happen.

What criticism of manny is unfair?

Dunn,

When are you gonna accept the fact that a fan is a fan no matter what?

Of course FFS they'll be biased towards their own fighter!

It's like your doing this....

Give your crusade of some sorts rest man!

Come to think of it, you seemed to place criticism solely and heavily on Pac...

[The Big Dunn]

Dunn,

When are you gonna accept the fact that a fan is a fan no matter what?

Of course FFS they'll be biased towards their own fighter!

It's like your doing this....

Give your crusade of some sorts rest man!

Come to think of it, you seemed to place criticism solely and heavily on Pac...

My man whats good? Why label it a crusade? Again the hyperbole from manny fans. Look at my full discussion with Hugh, I simply asked what is fair "criticism" and what isn't. I think the word criticism is used out of place.

There is no conspiracy to illegitimize manny pacquio or his accomplishments.

SOlely and Heavily on Pac, again with the hyperbole.

[madsweeney]

Fucking Paul Williams? Drunk Pavlik? I like how some choose to forget what the consensus was, disregard his opposition all you want but most here remember what was said before those bouts took place, and it sure as hell wasn't what your saying. Lets also remember he was supposedly ducking Dzinziruk.

Unlike Pacquiao, he's gone into matches that were viewed as threats by the vast majority, and he's been performing/ winning in great fashion too, something Pacquiao hasn't been doing. I still consider Pacquiao great, you on the other hand overrate the heck out of him.

Really, cuz going into the DLH, Pac wasn't facing a threat? Cuz everyone knew he was going to blow out Hatton, right? And nobody gave Cotto a chance? Right? GTFOH. Since cotto you can argue Pac has been the favorite, that's what happens when your #1 or 2 in your division, everyone else, your supposed to beat. Where are these threats? Pavlik was perceived as a threat, I'll give you that but its not like Sergio has been fighting A-level opposition for the past few years, he has a couple good wins, and some obvious skill that's it.

I don't. I consider him "GRAKE" great marketing but not a great fighter. Manny is a good fighter who was dressed up by Bob Arum and Freddie Roach to look like the greatest fighter. That's why once Marquez gave him nuff fits people balloons were bursts. Even Pinoy people said he lost. Manny had to hold a press conference to tell them to be Filipino and say he won. That's a fraud. Manny Pacquaio is a good, solid fighter but he needed his flaws fixed and instead of Freddie Roach doing what he needed as a pro trainer to get Pac to the next level, he fooled the public through the media along with Bob Arum. Did you see the pat on the head Arum gave Pac after the Marquez fight? It was a "You can't look good and win em all" pat. Was funny when team Pac was talking about JMM and how Pac would breeze through him but the total opposite happened. They were fooling the world with how great Pac was and how much he improved and that's why I don't cosign Pac as a great because instead of doing what needed to be done they manipulate the way people perceived him and that's why he is off the majority P4P#1 lists with exception to Ring Magazine. People were highly disappointed.

So good fighters can take a great fighter like JMM to hell and back 3 times?

Have you not noticed? Every fighter's team seeks to match them up with against fighters they'll look good against and/or makes the most $$. That's how the business is, unfortunately. Hell, that's exactly what Sergio is TRYING to do here, you really think his biggest challenges are guys fighting two weight divisions below him?

[Tamis!]

My man whats good? Why label it a crusade? Again the hyperbole from manny fans. Look at my full discussion with Hugh, I simply asked what is fair "criticism" and what isn't. I think the word criticism is used out of place.

There is no conspiracy to illegitimize manny pacquio or his accomplishments.

SOlely and Heavily on Pac, again with the hyperbole.

LOL coz I just don't get how you're not tired of these.

[hugh grant]

People say, Pacs not good cos he fights people suited to his style?

No, people say manny only dominates when he fights a certain type of fighter, [slower and less skilled] or they say, because he can only clearly beat one style, he isn't as good as floyd mayweather.

Urm, is it his fault that the top people of their division (hatton, Cotto, Mosley marg etc) all like to trade?

No. It is TR matchmaking against fighters that only prefer to trade that makes manny look dominant. Whenever an opponent doesn't stand and trade, manny appears to have a difficult time and doesn't look as dominant.

Is this a fair "criticism"?

Again unfair critiscm and grasping at straws in desperation. Pac beats people suited to him? So who has a style in the 147 who would beat Pac? So how far can we go with this debate? So i suppose SRL wont get credit for beating Hagler because hagler was suited to SRL? I suppose Ali wont get credit for beating Foreman, because Foreman was suited to Alis dancing style and lets face it, Foreman was a mummy impersonator? Its nit picking at the very highest level. Will JMM not get credit for taking Pac right to the wire cos Pac was made for JMMs style? Face it Cotto was the man at WW, and Pac should get massive credit. Anything else is nit picking, which is what haters do. Ths Pac beats people suited to his style is the biggest pile of poop going and people should save their breath even bothering debating it.

Again thats an opinion based on truth because Cotto wasn't the #1 ranked ww in the world.

If Sergio beat Lucian bute, he would be p4p no1 in the world inSergios fans eyes.

As for Sergio's fans, why can't they have the same opinion of their guy as you pac diehards want to have of Manny? If you can see the error in their ways IF sergio were to beat Bute(#2 at 168), thats the equivalent of a someone telling pac fans manny isn't #1 for beating cotto(#2 at 147).

What i want is Pac getting credit for beating Cotto, rather than put downs.

He gets credit. But pointing out that the fight was at 145 catchweight and not 147 is in no way a "putdown". Its the truth.

Why do you keep ignoring the issue? Is Sergio fair with his Pac is a fake p4p king assesment? Sergio would expect credit if he beat Lucian Bute or Carl Froch, so why be hipocritical in putting Pac down?

[The Big Dunn]

LOL coz I just don't get how you're not tired of these.

There has to be a way to constructively discuss manny without the hyperbole of "hatred" or "nuthugging" or "crusade" (haha).

[Slick_Rick]

Starting to lose respect for Sergio, hes obviously wants a pay day, but trying to bait a guy that is two division below him is seriously reaching. His division may not be pack but there is money fights out there for him:

Alvarez
Strum
Abraham
JCC
Cotto


He should be putting pressure on all these guys.

[Tamis!]

Have you not noticed? Every fighter's team seeks to match them up with against fighters they'll look good against and/or makes the most $$. That's how the business is, unfortunately. Hell, that's exactly what Sergio is TRYING to do here, you really think his biggest challenges are guys fighting two weight divisions below him?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've always said it's understandable if Sergio's all about the benjamins with Pac and Floyd.

But damn he totally took hypocrisy at a new level.

[madsweeney]

People say, Pacs not good cos he fights people suited to his style?

No, people say manny only dominates when he fights a certain type of fighter, [slower and less skilled] or they say, because he can only clearly beat one style, he isn't as good as floyd mayweather.

While I agree with what you said about only dominating certain styles, that can be said about anyone. Funny, how the style that Pac seems to do the best against (come forward pressure fighters) is the style Floyd has had the most trouble with (in relative terms).

Floyd also looks best when he's fighting flat-footed guys that he out-speeds, so why is that a negative for Pac but ignored when for Floyd?

[madsweeney]

Starting to lose respect for Sergio, hes obviously wants a pay day, but trying to bait a guy that is two division below him is seriously reaching. His division may not be pack but there is money fights out there for him:

Alvarez
Strum
Abraham
JCC
Cotto


He should be putting pressure on all these guys.

Naw, he'd rather take the easier fight that pays more.