who's greater juan manuel marquez or miguel cotto

[BrotherDudeJack]

No one replied? Strange. I must have missed that I would have happily replied.

Erik Morales to me is certainly greater than Marquez. Even with his win over Pacquaio in the 3rd fight. After Marquez' win I'm ok with people saying he's on his level, before that I wasn't.

Before that, it wasn't even argubale.

I mean, his wins over Pacquaio and prime Barrera were utterly better than Marquez' whole career.

Let alone; Zaragoza, McCullogh, Ayala, Jones, Espadas Jr, Chavez, Hernandez etc. Along with his 13 title defences.

Of course his recent performance closes the gap, but still, for me Morales is still greater. His resume is just much better.

As for Barrera, similar kind of thing. Despite me personally ranking Morales higher than Barrera, Barrera's clear win over a prime Morales was better than anything Marquez had ever done prior to his 3rd fight with Pac.

Along with his wins over McKinndey, Hamed, Tapia, Ayala, and the third fight with Morales (I felt Morales won by a point, but obviously there's a strong argument for Barrera, could have gone either way in my book.) and 16 Title defences.

Again, prior to the 3rd Pacquaio fight and even still now to be honest, Barrera's resume is clearly better than Marquez'. Like I said about Morales and have been saying since the Pac fight was signed; If Marquez wants to be remebered on the level of Barrera and Morales then he needs to beat Pacquaio. So, now I am ok with people comparing them. But still, for me, and most, Morales and Barrea are greater, they just have better resumes, simple as that.

Marquez has a good resume, but like Steak said in the other thread, after Pac, his resume is not too strong.

The 2nd Pac fight is very arguable. And despite me feeling that Marquez won I felt it could have gone either way. Which I generally don't put on a fighter's resume despite feeling he won. As opposed to the third fight, which I felt Marquez won clearly, to which I do put on their resume when ranking I.e Johnson UD Pastrano, Whitaker UD Ramirez and Chavez etc.

So other than that; Good wins over Medina, Gainer, Barrera (Past his best but still capable) Casamyor, Diaz x2 and Katsidis. Good resume, but does it compare to Morales' or Barrera's pre Pac 3? Absolutely not.

And even with the Pacquaio win Barrera and Morales' resume are atleast on par, and in most peoples minds aheead of Marquez.

It's very difficult to give a reasonable argument that he's greater than Morales or Barrera.

*you must spread some reputation around before giving it to IronDanHamza again*

[turbotime]

No one replied? Strange. I must have missed that I would have happily replied.

Erik Morales to me is certainly greater than Marquez. Even with his win over Pacquaio in the 3rd fight. After Marquez' win I'm ok with people saying he's on his level, before that I wasn't.

Before that, it wasn't even argubale.

I mean, his wins over Pacquaio and prime Barrera were utterly better than Marquez' whole career.

Let alone; Zaragoza, McCullogh, Ayala, Jones, Espadas Jr, Chavez, Hernandez etc. Along with his 13 title defences.

Of course his recent performance closes the gap, but still, for me Morales is still greater. His resume is just much better.

As for Barrera, similar kind of thing. Despite me personally ranking Morales higher than Barrera, Barrera's clear win over a prime Morales was better than anything Marquez had ever done prior to his 3rd fight with Pac.

Along with his wins over McKinndey, Hamed, Tapia, Ayala, and the third fight with Morales (I felt Morales won by a point, but obviously there's a strong argument for Barrera, could have gone either way in my book.) and 16 Title defences.

Again, prior to the 3rd Pacquaio fight and even still now to be honest, Barrera's resume is clearly better than Marquez'. Like I said about Morales and have been saying since the Pac fight was signed; If Marquez wants to be remebered on the level of Barrera and Morales then he needs to beat Pacquaio. So, now I am ok with people comparing them. But still, for me, and most, Morales and Barrea are greater, they just have better resumes, simple as that.

Marquez has a good resume, but like Steak said in the other thread, after Pac, his resume is not too strong.

The 2nd Pac fight is very arguable. And despite me feeling that Marquez won I felt it could have gone either way. Which I generally don't put on a fighter's resume despite feeling he won. As opposed to the third fight, which I felt Marquez won clearly, to which I do put on their resume when ranking I.e Johnson UD Pastrano, Whitaker UD Ramirez and Chavez etc.

So other than that; Good wins over Medina, Gainer, Barrera (Past his best but still capable) Casamyor, Diaz x2 and Katsidis. Good resume, but does it compare to Morales' or Barrera's pre Pac 3? Absolutely not.

And even with the Pacquaio win Barrera and Morales' resume are atleast on par, and in most peoples minds aheead of Marquez.

It's very difficult to give a reasonable argument that he's greater than Morales or Barrera.

That was a really nice breakdown of those 3 ATG's and I agree with everything. Very nice. The stuff they accomplished even before Marquez and Pac had fought their first fight solidified themselves as great fighters.

Barrera came back from the dead really after getting sparked by Jones and losing to him again, to beat Morales in their first bout (for me) Barrera was supposed to be the stepping stone for the younger, more popular Morales. That is a really overlooked aspect of Barrera's career, let alone his re-invention after beating Hamed.

[Daddy T]

I didn't vote because its an unfair poll. You can't compare what an ATG like marquez has achieved throughout a long career to Cotto who for all we know may still have the best of his career yet to come. Wait till Cotto is 38 then try it. He has a long way to go yet.

[No-mas-tias]

Who has JMM beaten aside from Pacquiao for him to be considered much greater than Cotto? Is Vernon Forrest greater than DLH because he beat Mosley twice also?

He beat an over the hill Barrera and....?

When he fought another great fighter in Chris John he lost. A bunch of good names in his resume, just like Cotto.

JMM in no way has a much better resume than Cotto and both of their boxer/puncher skill sets are top notch with each having their own strengths.

[Phenom]

Who has JMM beaten aside from Pacquiao for him to be considered much greater than Cotto? Is Vernon Forrest greater than DLH because he beat Mosley twice also?

He beat an over the hill Barrera and....?

When he fought another great fighter in Chris John he lost. A bunch of good names in his resume, just like Cotto.

JMM in no way has a much better resume than Cotto and both of their boxer/puncher skill sets are top notch with each having their own strengths.

who has cotto beat period? losses don't count on your resume

[BigStereotype]

who has cotto beat period? losses don't count on your resume

Mosley, Judah and Clottey aren't bad names at all.

[IronDanHamza]

That was a really nice breakdown of those 3 ATG's and I agree with everything. Very nice. The stuff they accomplished even before Marquez and Pac had fought their first fight solidified themselves as great fighters.

Barrera came back from the dead really after getting sparked by Jones and losing to him again, to beat Morales in their first bout (for me) Barrera was supposed to be the stepping stone for the younger, more popular Morales. That is a really overlooked aspect of Barrera's career, let alone his re-invention after beating Hamed.

Yeah, Barrera clearly won the first one. No doubt about it.

At that time, along with Mayweather and Roy Jones, Morales was my favourite fighter.

So me saying Barrera won is pretty much confirmig Barrera won. Very veyr hard to argue it any other way.

On the flipside, I think the same applies for the second fight. Morales clearly won the second fight IMO.

The 3rd fight, most people give to Barrera but I felt Morales won it by a point. I didn't complain with the Decision though and still don't because it was razor close.

Barrera winning that first fight was an ATG victory on every level.

[letsgobrady]

marquez is the greater fighter but it's to bad that he doesn't seems to get that much credit from his mexican fans unless he's fighting pacquiao or in this example they want to discredit or downplay a puerto rican

[No-mas-tias]

Plus undefeated fighters at the time like Pinto, Torres, and Malignaggi.

But again, answer my question, don't avoid it by asking another. Give me the other names that JMM has beaten that make his resume so much greater than Cotto's.

[LeG00N]

Mosley, Judah and Clottey aren't bad names at all.

they're not exactly HOF material either