who's greater juan manuel marquez or miguel cotto

[IronDanHamza]

wow, you thought Morales won the 3rd fight? I dont think Ive ever heard anyone say that.

Barrera very clearly won the 3rd imo, although it was nuts seeing how exhausted Barrera was in the 12th.

Yes, I do indeed.

Had it for Morales by 1 point live. And most times I've scored it I have the same score.

I mean, I've had it a draw and Barrera winning when I've re-scored it aswell. Like I said, It could have easily gone either way.

But yes, despite the general consensus being Barrera won clearly I certainly do not and never did see it that way.

And to be honest, when it actually happened it wasn't as unanimous as it has become that Barrera clearly won the fight.

Sky Sports coverage scored it a draw fi I remember correctly.

[Steak]

I actually had it a draw. It was the closest out of the 3 fights IMO.

Im pretty shocked to hear that. I thought the 1st fight was the closest actually. a lot of people gave Barrera that awesome 5th round, but I thought Morales won it since he came back after being rocked and landed a lot of good shots.

I think he was referring to the 2nd fight... which I thought Morales won aswell

The 3rd fight, most people give to Barrera but I felt Morales won it by a point. I didn't complain with the Decision though and still don't because it was razor close.

I had Morales also winning the 2nd, but the 3rd...I mean ****. Barrera was in control for the first half of the fight.

[IronDanHamza]

I think he was referring to the 2nd fight... which I thought Morales won aswell

No, I was referring to the 3rd fight. I think there is certainly an argument for Morales to win. Always have.

I'm openly biased toward Morales. So take that as you will.

As for the 2nd fight, Morales won clearly and there is very little argument for any other result IMO.

[IronDanHamza]

Im pretty shocked to hear that. I thought the 1st fight was the closest actually. a lot of people gave Barrera that awesome 5th round, but I thought Morales won it since he came back after being rocked and landed a lot of good shots.


I had Morales also winning the 2nd, but the 3rd...I mean ****. Barrera was in control for the first half of the fight.

Nah, the 3rd was most definitely the closest IMO. No doubt about it.

The 1st was clearly Barrera's and the second was clearly Morales'.

The 3rd, like I said, I felt could have gone either way.

I'd say he was ahead in the first half of the fight, but he didn't sweep them, IMO.

[Steak]

if you say so. Barrera pretty clearly won 6 of the first 7 rounds(in the 3rd fight)unless Im mistaken, I think I gave Morales only the 2nd. maybe 1 more that I cant remember. Morales came back very well, but I have no doubt Barrera won a round after that...ie the 11th. worst case scenario a draw.

The first fight, while I had Barrera winning, is definitely the closest one of the trilogy imo, and occasionally I have it a draw(I dont give an extra point in the 12th round since it wasnt really a punch that put Morales down).

[SplitSecond]

No one replied? Strange. I must have missed that I would have happily replied.

Erik Morales to me is certainly greater than Marquez. Even with his win over Pacquaio in the 3rd fight. After Marquez' win I'm ok with people saying he's on his level, before that I wasn't.

Before that, it wasn't even argubale.

I mean, his wins over Pacquaio and prime Barrera were utterly better than Marquez' whole career.

Let alone; Zaragoza, McCullogh, Ayala, Jones, Espadas Jr, Chavez, Hernandez etc. Along with his 13 title defences.

Of course his recent performance closes the gap, but still, for me Morales is still greater. His resume is just much better.

As for Barrera, similar kind of thing. Despite me personally ranking Morales higher than Barrera, Barrera's clear win over a prime Morales was better than anything Marquez had ever done prior to his 3rd fight with Pac.

Along with his wins over McKinndey, Hamed, Tapia, Ayala, and the third fight with Morales (I felt Morales won by a point, but obviously there's a strong argument for Barrera, could have gone either way in my book.) and 16 Title defences.

Again, prior to the 3rd Pacquaio fight and even still now to be honest, Barrera's resume is clearly better than Marquez'. Like I said about Morales and have been saying since the Pac fight was signed; If Marquez wants to be remebered on the level of Barrera and Morales then he needs to beat Pacquaio. So, now I am ok with people comparing them. But still, for me, and most, Morales and Barrea are greater, they just have better resumes, simple as that.

Marquez has a good resume, but like Steak said in the other thread, after Pac, his resume is not too strong.

The 2nd Pac fight is very arguable. And despite me feeling that Marquez won I felt it could have gone either way. Which I generally don't put on a fighter's resume despite feeling he won. As opposed to the third fight, which I felt Marquez won clearly, to which I do put on their resume when ranking I.e Johnson UD Pastrano, Whitaker UD Ramirez and Chavez etc.

So other than that; Good wins over Medina, Gainer, Barrera (Past his best but still capable) Casamyor, Diaz x2 and Katsidis. Good resume, but does it compare to Morales' or Barrera's pre Pac 3? Absolutely not.

And even with the Pacquaio win Barrera and Morales' resume are atleast on par, and in most peoples minds aheead of Marquez.

It's very difficult to give a reasonable argument that he's greater than Morales or Barrera.

sweet mary mother of god

[No-mas-tias]

JMM fan boys have no substance to their argument so they defend themselves with personal attacks.

You can't answer my question because outside of Pacquiao JMM hasn't beaten any big name opponent. When he stepped up against a very good fighter like Chris John he lost.

Barrera was done when he fought JMM. They're both great fighters but Cotto's resume is better.

[IronDanHamza]

if you say so. Barrera pretty clearly won 6 of the first 7 rounds(in the 3rd fight)unless Im mistaken, I think I gave Morales only the 2nd. maybe 1 more that I cant remember. Morales came back very well, but I have no doubt Barrera won a round after that...ie the 11th. worst case scenario a draw.

The first fight, while I had Barrera winning, is definitely the closest one of the trilogy imo, and occasionally I have it a draw(I dont give an extra point in the 12th round since it wasnt really a punch that put Morales down).

Not on my card he didn't.

I don't know which rounds, I haven't scored that fight in atleast 4 years.

But I simply disagree that Morales has no argument to be the winner. And like I said, obviously Barrera has more than a strong argument to be the winner aswell, as does the fight being a draw.

We may aswell agree to disagree, I've had this argument over 100,000 times. Literally.

[LeG00N]

JMM fan boys have no substance to their argument so they defend themselves with personal attacks.

You can't answer my question because outside of Pacquiao JMM hasn't beaten any big name opponent. When he stepped up against a very good fighter like Chris John he lost.

Barrera was done when he fought JMM. They're both great fighters but Cotto's resume is better.

Chris John is a big named opponent?
Who else Mayweather and Pacquiao?

Cotto got sparked by a limited skilled bum in Margarito.
and when he stepped up to his biggest fight he got stopped again.

[No-mas-tias]

Chris John is a big named opponent?
Who else Mayweather and Pacquiao?

Cotto got sparked by a limited skilled bum in Margarito.
and when he stepped up to his biggest fight he got stopped again.

I guess you don't know much about boxing if you don't consider Chris John one of the top fighters in boxing.

I think any expert and unbiased fan doesn't count Margarito's plaster aided W. Cotto has 1 L in his career against the # 2 p4p in a fight in which he went into with no trainer.

But his resume is still better than JMM.