Why Floyd is a better counter puncher than Marquez

[IMDAZED]

I'd dispute that Castillo is better. Juan Diaz actually unified the titles. Castillo well... he didn't.

You're kidding, right?

[intoccabile]

Agreed. However, when I say footwork, I don't mean what Cotto did. I mean little half steps forward or backward when needed - gauging distance that way and keeping Manny off balance. And I agree with you, he will walk Manny down...but behind the jab. And when he gets close he's going to rough him up. It's going to get ugly in there for Manny and I think his handlers know this.

Oh most definitely. I thought you meant the Baldimor type footwork. I guess you would have said "movement' or something more drastic then. But yeah, I do agree there too. Floyd would always have just the perfect range on manny. and would always step out or pivot at the right time too. People also underestimate his inside fighting too, it's some of the best in the sport today while I've NEVER seen manny fight in the inside. His best work is at the end of his punches, arms fully extended usually.

I dunno.. i just cant see floyd losing this fight, but I can see scenarios where it becomes trouble some and where manny can shine.

[apokalips]

I'd dispute that Castillo is better. Juan Diaz actually unified the titles. Castillo well... he didn't.

Seriously?

[Cleto_Reyes]

Where were his great counters against Barrera? Where were they against Chris John? Freddie Norwood?


[IMG]http://i177.***********.com/albums/w218/3zilla/pbfkayo.gif[/IMG]

He chose to fight a different style with barrera to please the fans. It was more of a brawling crowd please style. JMM has always been stuck inbetween the 2. He;s a natural counter puncher but also like to please the crowd.

[IMDAZED]

Oh most definitely. I thought you meant the Baldimor type footwork. I guess you would have said "movement' or something more drastic then. But yeah, I do agree there too. Floyd would always have just the perfect range on manny. and would always step out or pivot at the right time too. People also underestimate his inside fighting too, it's some of the best in the sport today while I've NEVER seen manny fight in the inside. His best work is at the end of his punches, arms fully extended usually.

I dunno.. i just cant see floyd losing this fight, but I can see scenarios where it becomes trouble some and where manny can shine.

Manny is just not a good inside fighter. And that will be the difference between a decision loss and a stoppage.

[!! Shawn]

I dont see how probably the only guy in boxing to be able to pull of the pullcounter as not being a counterpuncher.......

The pullcounter is a basic move that is taught in every gym. Floyd making a career out of it doesn't make him the only fighter who can do it.

[COACH WEBB]

You really have to ask that? Marquez was coming up short all night. It was obviously because of his deficit in reach.

A deficit that would be there regardless of weight.

Right.

Floyd shouldn't fight Manny either then, because Manny is too small.

[Light_Speed]

He chose to fight a different style with barrera to please the fans. It was more of a brawling crowd please style. JMM has always been stuck inbetween the 2. He;s a natural counter puncher but also like to please the crowd.

I don't think it was a choice, everytime he faces a good boxer his counterpunching skills don't look so great because he HAS to engage and he doesn't like it.

[Carpe Diem]

So you think Mayweather will step back away from Pacquiao's punches and that Pacquiao would continue to throw a combo at air?

You also think that the judges would score Manny hitting air as being good workrate? Or are you saying that Mayweather would stand there and let Pacquiao keep throwing punches at him like Clottey?

Mayweather has the countering ability and timing to throw at the same time as Pacquiao and stop his flurry in its tracks with a sharp counter and step to the side/back.

As for this debate, I honestly do not see anything that Marquez has over Mayweather apart from combination punching and uppercuts. Floyd is far superious at countering and in terms of intelligence IMO. He adjusts on the fly and rarely do you hear his corner barking orders at him, because he dictates the fight through his intelligence. He makes his opponents overthink things, whereas Marquez gets dragged into other people's fights too easily.

I think its way too convenient to just excuse that as being him wanting to please the crowd...nobody likes to get hit unless you're a nut like Mayorga. I could never see Mayweather allowing himself to get dropped 3 times in one round. Marquez lacks discipline that is why he gets dragged into brawls with guys like Katsidis and Diaz and gets dropped. I always said that was what he needed to correct vs Pacquiao and I was proud to see him fight with discipline vs Manny and grab the win...too bad the judges didn't give him what he deserved!

Exact same thing that I've always said.

[!! Shawn]

Seriously?

Yes... Seriously. Look at his career. His defining win is a Split Decision over Casamayor, or a Split Decision over Stevie Johnston.

Juan Diaz defining win is a Stoppage of Acelino Freitas, who handed Casamayor his first defeat.

Castillo was a tough dude, very good, but Diaz was better.

You really have to be a hell of a fighter to get where Diaz got with absolutely no power to speak of.