Why Floyd is a better counter puncher than Marquez

[IMDAZED]

Actually, pacman probably would. Usually when pac misses entirely, he is so off balance that it's hard to land a counter because he's usually off his feet (the ****er jumps while punching, so sloppy), and ends up a lot further from his man than he should be. However when he misses close, there's usually 2 or 3 extra punches that follow. One thing about floyd, he doesn't usually handle flurries with counters, but instead defends them and waits for those chances where he won't be touched at all.

Chillpill is 100% right for thinking that mayweather could be outworked there, since pac may be easy to counter, but floyd will have to be willing to get hit for once to do so.

I've seen stranger things with judging. Alexander/Kotelnik comes to mind. Devon hit nothing but air and Gloves. Mainly air. Remember this?

http://www.boxingscene.com/forums/view.php?pg=alexander-kotelnik-compubox

He threw 600 jabs and only landed 60 LOL! judges love work rate today, they dont even care if the **** lands. It's sad.

That's not going to happen too often. Mayweather will control the distance with his jab and footwork. And while Manny flurries in close quarters, he can be smothered. Mayweather will work him over inside. Just a bad fight for the Pacman.

[Toney Loc]

There also might not be or ever has been a more intelligent boxer than JMM.

Wow, really? Come on now, bruh.

[Cleto_Reyes]

George Muresan has natural ability. Jordan, well... he wasn't given the gift.

stop trolling homie!

[!! Shawn]

Provide examples. Did any of them look like this?


or this?




And against certain styles JMM hits nothing but air. If you're fighting a counter puncher that you can hit after being countered then you're much better off than fighting a counter puncher who is gone after he counters you. That makes the later a better counter puncher because he's not presenting you with an opportunity to inflict damage after counters.

They looked like this.

[savorduhflavor]

Marquez counters punches.

Mayweather counters the mere notion of punches.

[intoccabile]

That's not going to happen too often. Mayweather will control the distance with his jab and footwork. And while Manny flurries in close quarters, he can be smothered. Mayweather will work him over inside. Just a bad fight for the Pacman.

For some reason I don't see floyd doing any of the things we'd expect him to do against a puncher, simply because Manny is a southpaw, and floyd has never really used his footwork against a southpaw. I honestly believe floyd would walk manny down with a high guard, get his jabs in, and win with clean effective punching. But I DO see where Chillpill is coming from. if manny is willing to not get hesitant (which IMO he will once he sees floyd DOESNT hit soft and is so hard to hit, plus getting countered), then he could potentially attempt to always get off first and wrack up points just be being busy, judges seem to like that BS nowadays.

I guess I could make a Calzaghe/Nard comparison, or even Alexander/Kotelnik comparison as teh closest thing I can think of honestly.

[intoccabile]

They looked like this.

TY Shawn. If some people would actually be willing to look at floyds career they'd realize he use to sit down on his shots and throw with his opponent quite often.. and would always get caught like that at some ppoint. Maybe not to the same effect, but he'd get caught.

Which is why I stand by my opinion that floyd is a great counter puncher but not near as good as a multitasker as some of the other great counter punchers.

Floyd gets swarmed by castillo, wins a close disputed decision.
JMM gets swarmed by Diaz.. knocks him out with countering
Same with Toney and Jirov.

Some guys can wait and counter with their superb defense (mayweather).
Others can do that while in the midst of going to war. They take advantage of more counter opportunities, which to me makes them better 'counter punchers"

[Light_Speed]

marquez is obviously a superior counter puncher than floyd !!!! why because he does it against a higher caliber of opponent

Where were his great counters against Barrera? Where were they against Chris John? Freddie Norwood?

when have you seen mayweather counter with 3-4 shots !!!! ill answer that for you NEVER !!!!

[IMG]http://i177.***********.com/albums/w218/3zilla/pbfkayo.gif[/IMG]

[IMDAZED]

For some reason I don't see floyd doing any of the things we'd expect him to do against a puncher, simply because Manny is a southpaw, and floyd has never really used his footwork against a southpaw. I honestly believe floyd would walk manny down with a high guard, get his jabs in, and win with clean effective punching. But I DO see where Chillpill is coming from. if manny is willing to not get hesitant (which IMO he will once he sees floyd DOESNT hit soft and is so hard to hit, plus getting countered), then he could potentially attempt to always get off first and wrack up points just be being busy, judges seem to like that BS nowadays.

Agreed. However, when I say footwork, I don't mean what Cotto did. I mean little half steps forward or backward when needed - gauging distance that way and keeping Manny off balance. And I agree with you, he will walk Manny down...but behind the jab. And when he gets close he's going to rough him up. It's going to get ugly in there for Manny and I think his handlers know this.

[!! Shawn]

Im pretty sure with your boxing knowledge, you couldnt tell me, with examples, who has better ring IQ. Furthermore, Castillo is a far better fighter than Juan Diaz......

I'd dispute that Castillo is better. Juan Diaz actually unified the titles. Castillo well... he didn't.