Why Floyd is a better counter puncher than Marquez

[deejd]

You people like to argue in extremes I see,

I will ask you this though, do you think it's easier to be born with natural physical ability and apply it or intelligence and apply that?

This is where you're getting your argument... you're implying that Mayweather came out of the womb and just had physical ability as if he didn't have to work for the ability that he now possesses.... Look at Zab Judah, Roy Jones, etc. Those guys had physical ability.

Look at bhop, he's not the most athletic guy in the world and he wasn't given the gifts that RJJ was.

[deejd]

Yes......because guys like Peyton Manning have become successfull and are heralded for their intelligence......but when someone who has extreme physicla gifts does well in sports, its always passed off as "oh, they havent had to work as hard, they were born with it".....I believe that we are all born with a certain level of physicality and intelligence.

As you said, there can be a middle ground and JMM isnt as slow as Margarito so he has enough physical tools to compute what his brain is telling him to do in the ring.......

Stellar post.

[COACH WEBB]

Yes......because guys like Peyton Manning have become successfull and are heralded for their intelligence......but when someone who has extreme physicla gifts does well in sports, its always passed off as "oh, they havent had to work as hard, they were born with it".....I believe that we are all born with a certain level of physicality and intelligence.

As you said, there can be a middle ground and JMM isnt as slow as Margarito so he has enough physical tools to compute what his brain is telling him to do in the ring.......

Say that again! And that ALWAYS come up football when Black quarterbacks in particular are discussed. They never get credit for their "intelligence" as opposed to their white counterparts. But that is a whole 'nother argument that I care not to have in this thread.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I never said that you said he was better. And if you did, that's your opinion. Please believe I don't anyone to say something good about Floyd to appease me.



Uh...ok. But Floyd climbed a hill to. With all of the "natural abilities" that he had, he still had to price the price to be as good as he is. But what fighter (or athlete) didn't?



Explain this further, if you would.

Yes, all fighter climbed a hill but we were comparing JMM to Floyd right? So therefore the comparison.....

I guess I didn't make myself clear. Physical ability COMPARED to Floyd. Guys like Roy Jones JR for example, were so much more talented than everyone else that they could beat them out of just simply being faster and more powerful.

Now, Floyd is much more skilled in boxing and has much greater fundamentals that Jones Jr, but I'm using it as an example so you can understand where I'm coming from.

Floyd is the complete package, natural ability, work ethic, intelligence and skill. JMM is complete with the exception of one thing, his athletic or natural physical ability isn't off the charts like Floyds is.

So for ME, in MY OPINION, I think it's more impressive because he's been great DESPITE his limitations where are Floyd has been great IN PART because of them.

[SplitSecond]

In what ways did he use that "huge size avantage" that he had?

how did he not use his huge size advantage? infact it's pretty difficult to avoid using ones size advantage

you dont think a bigger mns punches have a bigger affect on smaller fighters?
or are you one of the twats who thinks size doesn't mean sht unless the bigger guy is jumping ontop of the smaller man? im sure tommy hearns knocking out duran had nothing to do with the huge size advantage, nevermind the reach, the heavier bones and the leverage on a much shorter person, im sure hearns size was never a factor in any of his fights

[RichCCFC]

You are making the typical mistake of the boxing fan that is confusing natural talent with boxing ability.

The biggest difference between JMM and Mayweather is that Mayweather is a superior athlete. I would say that JMM is a more impressive boxer/counter puncher because he's made a career in skill and skill alone.

I'm not saying JMM doesn't have natural ability but when you compare him to others of his time, he doesn't have anything as far as natural ability that stands out.

He's not particularly fast, quick, strong or has a powerful punch. Instead he's very average all the way around yet has continued to be at the top of the boxing world late into his 30's and seems to have gotten better as time has gone on.

That is EXTREMELY rare in the world of boxing because make no mistake about it, this is a young mans game.

Mayweather on the other hand has INCREDIBLE natural talents. His speed is amazing, reactions, reflexes and even power when he was fighting at the lower weight classes.

Mayweather is also a great boxer/counter puncher but he has the advantage of being able to do things that JMM cannot because of physical ability.

For me, I'm more impressed with JMM personally because he's done much more with much less.

There also might not be or ever has been a more intelligent boxer than JMM.

this is it!

[intoccabile]

Different styles of counter punching. JMM can multitask better than floyd. Floyd is best at waiting to counter, but if you study his career, watch his early bouts when he use to sit down and go to war with opponents (people think he was always a pot shotter) you'd realize he got hit a LOT during exchanges.

JMM is a better counter puncher when engaging than floyd is. Floyds biggest gift in this discussion is his defense, THAT is hitting and not being hit. COUNTERING is making your opponent pay for missing, or putting punches out there.

JMM isn't near as patient or defensive

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Yes......because guys like Peyton Manning have become successfull and are heralded for their intelligence......but when someone who has extreme physicla gifts does well in sports, its always passed off as "oh, they havent had to work as hard, they were born with it".....I believe that we are all born with a certain level of physicality and intelligence.

As you said, there can be a middle ground and JMM isnt as slow as Margarito so he has enough physical tools to compute what his brain is telling him to do in the ring.......

Actually Payton Manning would be a better comparison to Floyd. Payton Manning has ALL the natural abilities. He's 6'5", 230lbs and can throw the ball 70 yards standing still.

Bad comparison. I would have used Doug Flutie if you know who that is to compare to JMM.

[ogbg]

Mayweather is definitely a better counter-puncher than JMM. JMM is more entertaining to watch with his mad combinations, which is why he is probably my favourite fighter, but Mayweather is more effective. His counters generally land before the other guy's punch despite being thrown after. JMM responds with a surpisingly accurate mixture of uppercuts and hooks to the head and body but he always gets hit first.

[deejd]

Now, Floyd is much more skilled in boxing and has much greater fundamentals that Jones Jr, but I'm using it as an example so you can understand where I'm coming from.

Floyd is the complete package, natural ability, work ethic, intelligence and skill. JMM is complete with the exception of one thing, his athletic or natural physical ability isn't off the charts like Floyds is.

Ok, so.... define natural ability; You mean his conditioning? His counterpunching? Jab? Defense?

Hey, maybe you're right though, when he was an infant he already knew how to box and chop wood/run 10 miles a day.