Has paquiao really gotten that much better???

[lebrick]

he didn't get better.. its the a-side meth..

----- floyd sr

[madsweeney]

Its tough to say considering the measuring sticks we've had to see him measured against, however, I see more refinement, not drastic changes. His right hand seems more powerful and accurate as counter punching tool than before, also there's a few punches that he uses more often now than before (left hookercut/cross to the body), and perhaps most importantly, his foot placement.

I see TS's point in that his style hasn't changed dramatically but to me, the Pac until Marquez II was learning the style. I think something clicked after that fight, like maybe he realized how to use his new tools and he mastered those skills over the past few years. We'll see how they hold up against Marquez, I imagine Pac might surprise a few people in that he'll be boxing better, maintaining better positioning and counter punching Marquez more than ever.

People criticize Pac's inability to cut of the ring against Mosley (turn him to the left and he resets) but I think there was a reason for that, at it was all about foot positioning, Mosley was trying to position him for a right cross, and IMO Pac made the fight look ugly instead of giving up his position. Clottey is where I noticed Pac's improvement on his foot positioning, Clottey was usually very good at maintaining the outside with his lead foot (see Judah fight for best example, but he couldn't get it with Pac.

[gatorDelux]

i've said before that he peaked in the second marquez fight, a fight where he actually outboxed marquez at times

and that he hasn't changed much since then

a good concise assesment^^^^^

his speed and the fact that welters cant deal with it is what make shim so dominat

there is a difference between looking better and dominating

[gatorDelux]

what is up with the people that come here toflame then when i reply they dont ever com back to this thread???

[gatorDelux]

Its tough to say considering the measuring sticks we've had to see him measured against, however, I see more refinement, not drastic changes. His right hand seems more powerful and accurate as counter punching tool than before, also there's a few punches that he uses more often now than before (left hookercut/cross to the body), and perhaps most importantly, his foot placement.

I see TS's point in that his style hasn't changed dramatically but to me, the Pac until Marquez II was learning the style. I think something clicked after that fight, like maybe he realized how to use his new tools and he mastered those skills over the past few years. We'll see how they hold up against Marquez, I imagine Pac might surprise a few people in that he'll be boxing better, maintaining better positioning and counter punching Marquez more than ever.

People criticize Pac's inability to cut of the ring against Mosley (turn him to the left and he resets) but I think there was a reason for that, at it was all about foot positioning, Mosley was trying to position him for a right cross, and IMO Pac made the fight look ugly instead of giving up his position. Clottey is where I noticed Pac's improvement on his foot positioning, Clottey was usually very good at maintaining the outside with his lead foot (see Judah fight for best example, but he couldn't get it with Pac.

yep

in short he has refined what he already kind of had

he hasnt evolved

i got into an argument with my dad over it

then we rewatched some pac fights and he ate his words

[tibbar]

i know right???

its not *****g him down at all

i just think the reason he is beating bigger guys is cause he has the style to beat bigger guys

just becauseim not repeating what bob arum and roach say durring a 24/7 ep. means im a hater

i route for the guys almost every ***in time


and im one of the few who thinks pac marquez is gonna be good

pac will be a clear winner maybe even by ko but marquez's style capitaizes on pacs mistakes

im a fan of the sport not just one fighter

what do you mean by "style to beat bigger guys"? whats that style? can you elaborate on that? tyson beat bigger guys, srr beat bigger guys, armstrong beat bigger guys too, and frazier, does that mean pacquiao's style is similar to them? or they have something in common? speed and power perhaps? how about leonard, he beat bigger guys than him.

and about that issue regarding "cutting the ring", people ask for that or use pacquiao's inability to "cut the ring" as a brick to throw on manny, does his style needs that? to "cut the ring" when his oppos are on their bicycle trying to avoid his wrath, or they maybe talking about opponents that are experts in potshots, yeah hell lose on points but losing on potshots is that something to be ashamed of when youre an accomplished warrior, meaning people know when you climb up the ring you always come to fight. but wait a minute, is the trainer been factored in? roach cant teach manny how to cut the ring? i doubt that, maybe "cutting the ring" in those fights are not included in the strategy because theres no need for it. manny being manny is a compassionate guy, and he himself said thatboxing is not about killing your opponent. maybe when theres a need to really "cut the ring" hell display it, thats one more reason to watch pacquiao fights. he brings new things everytime he fights at least in his fighting repertoire. as for style, well you can also say pacquiao's mindset is also a factor in his beating bigger guys. pacquiao has a competitive spirit, he loves good scrap, to a point hes a masochist, he loves pain the same rate he loves giving it..

[Reloaded]

Naw. He's just fighting guys that better fit his style now.

Yeah Catch weight a bigger guy down and weakened , and now Catch Weighed a smaller guy to make slower ,,,,, opponents are made to order .

[jrosales13]

Yeah Catch weight a bigger guy down and weakened , and now Catch Weighed a smaller guy to make slower ,,,,, opponents are made to order .

Yes Pac wins because of catch-weights...

F'ing ******.

[Jack Napier]

Yeah Catch weight a bigger guy down and weakened , and now Catch Weighed a smaller guy to make slower ,,,,, opponents are made to order .

the catchweight in this fight is to accommodate JMM :laugh:
and do you HONESTLY think he'd do any better vs Pac at JWW?

[gatorDelux]

what do you mean by "style to beat bigger guys"? whats that style? can you elaborate on that? tyson beat bigger guys, srr beat bigger guys, armstrong beat bigger guys too, and frazier, does that mean pacquiao's style is similar to them? or they have something in common? speed and power perhaps? how about leonard, he beat bigger guys than him.

and about that issue regarding "cutting the ring", people ask for that or use pacquiao's inability to "cut the ring" as a brick to throw on manny, does his style needs that? to "cut the ring" when his oppos are on their bicycle trying to avoid his wrath, or they maybe talking about opponents that are experts in potshots, yeah hell lose on points but losing on potshots is that something to be ashamed of when youre an accomplished warrior, meaning people know when you climb up the ring you always come to fight. but wait a minute, is the trainer been factored in? roach cant teach manny how to cut the ring? i doubt that, maybe "cutting the ring" in those fights are not included in the strategy because theres no need for it. manny being manny is a compassionate guy, and he himself said thatboxing is not about killing your opponent. maybe when theres a need to really "cut the ring" hell display it, thats one more reason to watch pacquiao fights. he brings new things everytime he fights at least in his fighting repertoire. as for style, well you can also say pacquiao's mindset is also a factor in his beating bigger guys. pacquiao has a competitive spirit, he loves good scrap, to a point hes a masochist, he loves pain the same rate he loves giving it..

i was never putting him down

he has the handspeed that the bgger guys cant see

his defense is better caus ehe can see there punches

he has a chin and the power of amiddleweight

andhis footspeed allows him to get away with his lunging flurries twithout the big guys capitalizing on his mistakes

he has gotten slightly more experienced and he is not cutting weight like crazy anymore but its easier to look lik ur skills are better against bigger slower guys

he is slighlty better his skillsthat he had sinse about the second marquez ffight are about he same just more refinde=a little

but he hasnt evolved

read throught the whole thread and read the title closley

"has he gotten THAT MUCH BETTER" not "pac still sucks"

and ur srr and armstrong comparisons areway off