Considering The Plaster Scandal, Should FMJ Still Have Fought Marg?

[Boxingtech718v2]

It shocks me how supposedly "knowledgable" boxing fans on this site worship Margarito and act as if he was ever an elite level fighter. I am so sick of hearing about how a f***ing proven cheater with 7 losses would have beaten Mayweather.

Exactly, I'm shocked by how naive these fans are. Are we supposed to believe the word of a damn confirmed liar and cheater that they only used the plaster once. lol! That's like catching your girl getting sexed by another man and she says that it was a one time thing. IMO Cheatto got off light enough as it is and probably should be banned for life.

OK forget all of that though who the hell did Cheatto beat to deserve a Mayweather payday? I'm just happy Pacman weight drained and broke his cheating face during their fight. How does it feel to lose because somebody had an unfair advantage Cheatto?

[daggum]

Should have or could have?

The word "should" implies that Mayweather had an obligation to fight him as if he had done anything to make a case for himself being the best in the division while Mayweather was active. Mayweather only took off 2008 and was back fighting again in 2009.

If 12 months could make or break a fighter's legacy or his chances for a mega fight, well then ... how good was the fighter in the grand scheme of things?

Mayweather was and is the top dog. He fights the #1 and #2 fighters in every division, has been the king of every division he's competed in, and has remained undefeated in 14 years of activity against top opposition and contenders.

There is nothing that Mayweather "should have done" after fighting DLH. Mayweather had already become the #1 WW and then beat a HOF'er who had been campaigning as a MW.

I think at that point Mayweather had earned the right not to have to jump through hoops to prove anything. Its amazing how some people think that the P4P#1 fighter in the sport still has to chase and prove despite reigning for 14 years undefeated.

No king serves with the infantry. He doesn't have to. That's the point of being a king.

The bishops, rooks and knights fought it out on the 147lbs board and the piece left standing was Shane Mosley. That's who Floyd fought when Mosley was coming off of a KO win over Margarito.

Enough with the revisionist crap already.

yes floyd timed it perfectly so he ended up fighting the faded 38 year old instead of everyone else when they were on top. this is called cherry picking. you could say cotto, judah, and mosley fought it out and cotto was left standing. you could say cintron, clottey, cotto, and margarito fought it out and margarito was left standing. the piece left standing constantly changes. baldomir and mosley were not pieces that were gonna be around for long and everyone knew it. margarito and cotto were well established pieces in their primes and floyd wanted no part of them.

[right_hand_lead]

Why is this even a discussion? Does any rational boxing fan think Margarito would have beaten Mayweather anyway? He's custom made for Floyd. Just like he was for Pacquiao.

[Chopper417]

yes floyd timed it perfectly so he ended up fighting the faded 38 year old instead of everyone else when they were on top. this is called cherry picking. you could say cotto, judah, and mosley fought it out and cotto was left standing. you could say cintron, clottey, cotto, and margarito fought it out and margarito was left standing. the piece left standing constantly changes. baldomir and mosley were not pieces that were gonna be around for long and everyone knew it. margarito and cotto were well established pieces in their primes and floyd wanted no part of them.

Annndd I'd be willing to bet that you were one of the same jokers on here that after Mosley destroyed Margs said that Floyd would never fight him. You may have even been one of the same clowns that said Mosley would beat Mayweather.

[daggum]

Annndd I'd be willing to bet that you were one of the same jokers on here that after Mosley destroyed Margs said that Floyd would never fight him. You may have even been one of the same clowns that said Mosley would beat Mayweather.

no but i thought baldomir would beat mayweather! i'm still shocked he lost. if a journeyman beats pac will mayweather fight the journeyman and become the greatest of all time? of course you will say the journeyman was on top and praise it as a better win than actually beating pac himself. obviously this makes no sense but you have to throw all sense and logic out the window when floyd is around.

[Chopper417]

no but i thought baldomir would beat mayweather! i'm still shocked he lost. if a journeyman beats pac will mayweather fight the journeyman and become the greatest of all time? of course you will say the journeyman was on top and praise it as a better win than actually beating pac himself. obviously this makes no sense but you have to throw all sense and logic out the window when floyd is around.

haha not sure where that little rant came from. Get real dude, I'm a Floyd fan and the Baldomir fight was a complete joke to me, I'm realistic, not to mention I'm not sure what that has to do with this thread anyways.

So you said Floyd would definitely fight Mosley after Mosley beat Margs? A simple yes or no response will do just fine thank you.

[Brother Jay]

yes floyd timed it perfectly so he ended up fighting the faded 38 year old instead of everyone else when they were on top. this is called cherry picking. you could say cotto, judah, and mosley fought it out and cotto was left standing. you could say cintron, clottey, cotto, and margarito fought it out and margarito was left standing. the piece left standing constantly changes. baldomir and mosley were not pieces that were gonna be around for long and everyone knew it. margarito and cotto were well established pieces in their primes and floyd wanted no part of them.

How did Floyd time anything that happened in 2007-2008 when Floyd had been talking about retiring before he fought DLH?

Anyone can say anything, but the actual FACT of the matter is that only Cotto and Margarito rose to the top of the WW division at different points in their career between November 2007- January 2009. That's about 1 year and a month.

Neither of those fighters had the skill or the ability to hold on to any momentum their careers picked up after their one big win.

Both Cotto and Margarito suffered technical knockouts within 8 months of the biggest and most significant wins of their careers.

Can you honestly say that either of those men were on top long enough for a reasonable amount of time to be considered "ducked or avoided"? Neither of them lasted even 8 months! People who are ducked remain top and credible threats to make their case. These guys won ONLY one match each and a fringe group of Cotto and Margarito fans took up the cause to argue that they were avoided DUE TO THE ONE MATCH THAT EACH OF THEM WON.

Come on, people. Let's get real.

no but i thought baldomir would beat mayweather! i'm still shocked he lost. if a journeyman beats pac will mayweather fight the journeyman and become the greatest of all time? of course you will say the journeyman was on top and praise it as a better win than actually beating pac himself. obviously this makes no sense but you have to throw all sense and logic out the window when floyd is around.

And this line of reasoning exposes your lack of comprehension.

Mayweather's legacy was not and is not predicated solely on his accomplishments at WW. Mayweather defeated Baldomir after Baldomir beat the #1 WW in the world?

Are you seriously complaining about that? Are you somehow trying to devalue Baldomir's win? Vernon Forrest, who had done NOTHING significant at WW before handing Shane Mosley his first loss when Mosley was riding high off of his win over DLH, came in and did the same exact thing to Shane that Baldomir did to Zab Judah.

How is one legitimate and the other not legitimate?

Yes, Baldomir lost two fights later, but Forrest lost his very next match after Mosley!

Manny Pacquiao has made his argument as a top fighter in catchweights at 147lbs. DLH, Hatton, Cotto, Clottey, Margarito and Mosley were all coming off the biggest losses of their careers. Only Cotto was ranked #4 when he faced Manny. All the rest were ranked #5 when they faced him.

QUESTION: Does fighting boxers ranked 4th and 5th make a case for a boxer to be ranked the #1 WW or even #1 P4P?

You need to sit down and gather your thoughts, my man. Double standards don't work in an honest debate.

Don't take me saying that personally. You're not alone. There are people in the boxing business who uses double standards as well all the time.

I remember when Roy Jones beat Hopkins and announced that he was going up to SMW. All the writers, pundits and commentators said that Roy was too small and would killed at SMW. Then Roy beat the P4P#1 fighter in the world at that time, James Toney. Roy then said he wanted to go up to ltHW. The boxing world said that he was crazy. They said that he had never been hit by a real live 175lbs'er. It took years, but Roy unified the division and became the ltHW king.

Then, Roy said that he wanted to fight for the greatest crown in boxing: The HW title. Roy's people tried diligently to negotiate with Lennox Lewis and his people. Lewis refused the fight, citing the fact that he had everything to lose and had little to nothing to gain by fighting Roy Jones. The only HW that would accept the fight with Jones was John Ruiz, the WBA HW champion.

EVERYONE said that Roy would have to run the entire match just to stay alive. Few thought Roy stood a chance. Roy came to fight, and he used his speed and his ring generalship to frustrate and outhustle Ruiz.

However during the fight, you can actually hear Larry Merchant arguing with George Foreman ... stating "Well .. Jones is not really the HW champion because he's not fighting Lewis, who is the real HW champion".

George became livid as said something like "Don't try to discredit what Roy has done here tonight. You were a part of the build-up to the fight just like everybody else. He's a heavyweight champion of the world after tonight".

Roy Jones, in his prime before coming down from HW, was the most dominate champion in decades. Yet Merchant and many others could only find fault in him being the first man in 100 years to go from MW to HW and capture a HW title.

They all knew Jones tried to get Lewis. They all knew that Lewis stated that the risk wasn't worth the reward. They all talked the fight up for months for HBO, showing anticipation and intrigue ... until it became obvious that Jones was going to win that fight.

Don't pretend that double standards don't exist. Don't pretend that certain writers and commentators don't have their favorites. If everyone was judged by the same criteria that Jones and Mayweather had to live up to there would be a lot less greats.

Take Julio Cesar Chavez for instance. I love the guy and think that he is an ATG and a HOF, but he's benefited from hype quite a bit.

Chavez not only padded his record with 43 fights in the beginning, but he incurred a DQ loss that was changed to a win because his manager was a member of the commission who changed it.

Chavez also won and defended a vacant title up to his 57th fight. He didn't beat a champion for it.

Chavez also got gifts against Sweet Pea and Meldrick Taylor.

So before people get ahead of themselves thinking that the "good ole days" fighters didn't benefit from double standards, think again.

Like I said ... you have company.

[D4thincarnation]

IMHO, I think the only fighter we could say FMJ didn't fight was Cotto at the end of 2007 and early 2008.

Why are people still hanging a Margarito fight over Floyd's head despite the Margarito scandal that was brought to light in 2009?

Looking back on things, that was the best move Floyd made in his career...

Thoughts?

Floyd ducked Margarito, a very tough fight for Floyd one where he could lose and take a beating in the process.

Floyd has said post hand-wrap scandal that thats the reason why he didn't fight him.

One problem with that though, Floyd didn't know about the wraps back then.

[Haglerwins]

I don't know why everybody gets off on Marg. I thought he was ill until the wraps. He's been average ever since. And i can't believe people are dismissing it when a commision thought what he did was su****ious enough to suspend his license. Not speculation. An investigation by a boxing commision. And you have a first hand account of ****m saying blocks fell out of his wraps.. ie.. something hard. What's the matter with some of you guys? The man cheated.

Anywho, Baldomir was better than him at the time anyway and he does a bit of the pressure formula himself. Better chin back then as far as I'm concerned too with Tony crumbling to Mosley. Carlos stood up to Vernon Forrests power who did nothing but tee off on him for 12 rounds.

And not only did he eat power all night, he reacted to his punches that would drop everyone at 147 like a fly was hitting him. His face wasn't even battered after eating bombs ALL night. And people had the nerve to get on Floyd not being able to hurt dude.

Floyd beat the slightly better version of the same kind of fighter at the time. A walking chin who at least had a real belt.

and Margarito gets all this praise, but dude has been doing nothing but winning and then immediately following it up with losses since trying to get that money fight with Floyd. Mayweather didn't owe him sht, he had no notable wins other than a prospect, and Judah was recognized as the champ at the weight. All Tony's fault for fighting in that division for damn near 10 years and having jack sht to show for it where Baldomir swoops in and steals his thunder in 2 fights and brings in the kind of money a big name wants.

Says more about you than the other guy when that happens.

Floyd: "Can you name 1 name fighter on that m#$%^fkers record?!"

Biggest reason why he didn't get the fight.

And i don't know why Cotto was brought up, that was way after all his calling out Jr. bs. Only a prospect was his big win then. Mayweather, the 2nd biggest name in the sport jumps to 147 and a unproven lumbering toughman has dibs just because he says so? C'mon.

I'll take the argument for a Cotto duck before this bs.

[BoxingGenius27]

Floyd ducked Margarito, a very tough fight for Floyd one where he could lose and take a beating in the process.

Floyd has said post hand-wrap scandal that thats the reason why he didn't fight him.

One problem with that though, Floyd didn't know about the wraps back then.

After the Margarito scandal was reveiled, FMJ did say "He thought something was always strange about Margarito".

That's not saying he knew specifically about the plaster, but he noticed "something" wasn't right. I know that's a very general statement, but I think you get the point I'm trying to make.