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Originally posted by Mr. Blobby
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if erik was past ti...so was duran when leonard beat him... -
Why are people still arguing with baracuda (puga) on this topic?Comment
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Ummm, Oscar had lost 50% of his last five or six fights. He had been beaten by decision, and knocked out. He had fought part time for many years and was badly, badly weight drained and past it. Everyone knew it and no one denied it. Even Roach is famously quoted as saying "We knew he was done the moment I saw him looking pale and weak with needle marks to try and rehydrate him" and "Oscar was done. He couldn't pull the trigger anymore. That's why I knew we could beat him". Oscar also famously said after it " You were right Freddie. I just don't have it anymore". Hagler, while showing signs of wear and being past it, hadn't actually lost a fight in over a decade, was still active, still champion and still beating the best fighters in the world. How does that compare to Oscar in any way?Originally posted by Stromprophet View Post
They are utterly incomparable in every way, shape or form. Hagler is greater, was at his best weight, wasn't weight drained, hadn't lost a fight in ten years and had just come off some of the biggest wins in his career. He was also considered the best fighter in the world at that time, was the Undisputed, lineal, unified world champion.
As to your claim that in 1987, Hagler wasn't in the top five P4P, how do you know? They didn't even have a P4P rating then. Unless you were alive and were watching boxing then, you wouldn't know if he was in the top five or not. They didn't even talk about a top five P4P list! Where do you get this? If they had an actual P4P ranking then, which they did unofficially (as ridiculous as it is to have one officially as they do now, since it's completely unofficial and subjective...?
), through word of mouth Hagler was the P4P number one fighter in the world. They didn't talk about it as number one, two, three etc. Hagler was considered the best fighter in the world in any division. He was the P4P number one fighter.
I find it funny that people talk about P4P now as if that's all that mattered. Before 1990, they didn't have it although they (historians, experts, commentators etc) did talk about it unofficially. Lists however, weren't mentioned. It was just the number one guy. Duran was the number one P4P ranked fighter, then Leonard was, then Hagler. It was never officially listed though like it is today.
Oscar was a part time fighter. He wasn't a champion of any sort and held no title and hadn't for some time. He had lost every second fight for five or six years and had formed a habit of winning a fight, then losing a fight. His was and famously always will be now, a classic example of a ******ly weight drained zombie of a fighter.
As to Oscar being ranked P4P or ranked at all....well, it was just that. He wasn't ranked at all by anyone. It's even worse than pretending Margarito was ranked and their fight was a title fight at 154.
Oscar wasn't, and hadn't been rated in the top ten at 147 in ten years. He didn't hold a title and hadn't won a title since beating Mayorga for some paper title at 154 many years previous which Mayorga won in a vacant title fight against some dude.
As to your claim of him being P4P rated? That is utterly, completely, entirely untrue. Oscar wasn't close to being P4P rated by anyone, anywhere in the top ten at the time and hadn't been for many, many years. In fact, the last time Oscar was ranked P4P was just before his fights with Mosley and Sturm. He then lost by KO to Hopkins and was never ranked P4P again in his career and most certainly wasn't anywhere near it when he fought Pac. He was further away and lower ranked at that stage than he had ever been at any time in his career. He wasn't rated by any organisation in any top ten for anything and certainly wasn't a P4P ranked fighter in any division, or organisation either. Where you pulled that from is beyond me....and I think it was a bald faced lie for some bizarre point.
Benitez is rated higher than anyone Pac fought for good reason. He was a better fighter. He's not rated over everyone from 1990, which just shows why most of Pacs fans aren't taken seriously. They don't damn well know anything. Since 89/90, you have had Chavez, Whitaker, Tyson (who was number one in it's first ever list), Jones, Toney, Oscar etc etc. Benitez beat greater fighters in as many divisions as any of Pac's biggest names. He is rated higher for very good reason, but no one is saying he's greater than everyone since 1990. I wonder if any of you people realise there have been other fighters than Pac, Mayweather, Barrera, Morales, Marquez, Diaz, Hatton, Margarito, and Cotto since 1990. Chavez, Whitaker, Jones were the big names through that decade. All are arguably greater than Benitez. Morales, Barrera, Marquez were never higher than any of them, are not and never will be just as they are not greater fighters than Benitez.
Apart from that, you have idiots like Puga saying Kalule is a nobody and isn't even as good as David Diaz, while propping up fighters like Diaz, Clottey etc and saying they it's just as hard to win a title today. He doesn't know any of the names of then and doesn't understand that in another ten/twenty years no one is going to be talking about Diaz, Clottey, Hatton, Margarito is if they were anything at all just like he is to Kalule simply because he doesn't know any of them and has only followed boxing for a few years.
They are just normal champions of today that won't be remembered apart from by their fans. Kalule was better all around than those guys, but he was still just a normal champion of the day, like Hatton, Margarito, Clottey etc. He was a very good one and is easily the equal, if not the better of those guys. That's the idiocy of so many people here. They don't understand that Clottey has never been rated higher than #4, 5 or 6. That compares to many guys on Leonard's resume that aren't even talked about anymore. However, at the time, they were talked about in exactly the same terms as a Clottey, Diaz, Margarito. Just because you don't know them and weren't alive or watching boxing doesn't mean they don't exist.Comment
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Did Duran get beat by an average fighter before the SRL rematch?Originally posted by puga View PostComment
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Just as an aside, Ring Magazine started their p4p lists in the early eighties. Tyson, Chavez. It was also those guys fighting for it in the early years...
Carry on, I think both sides are arguing this pretty well.Comment
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becuase they want to feel they owned me.......sort of like why jmm still chases pac ... your obssesion with baracuda is alarming...Originally posted by VWEBBJR View PostComment
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Pac is a ATG, so is Leonard. To me your resume is the quality of fighters you have defeated. Pacs is good but this one belongs to Ray and I was a Leonard hater back in the dayComment
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The only 2 good fighters that were on a winning streak when Pac beat them are Barrera and JMM (most think he lost both fights). Pacquiao's resume simply doesn't come anywhere close to SRL.Comment
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raheem was jusy a bad style matchup for erik...Originally posted by Mr. Blobby View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLv_L...ayer_embedded#!
He did’nt like to train anymore, he was dehydrated, wanted to postpone the fight but don king had different plan etc…..Comment
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Thread was 20+ pages deep when I got here. It's hard to add much to what's been said, except to restate that you're a moron.Originally posted by puga View PostComment
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