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The Topic is ALL OVER THE PLACE, it goes from comparing RESUMES, to arguing about how high people on a fighters Resume should be rank, to how DOMINATING their Victories were. hahaha THE THINGS FANS DO TO DEFEND THEIR FAVORITE FIGHTERS...
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1980
Ayub Kalule, Champion
1.Maurice Hope
2.Kenny Bristol
3.Rocky Mattioli
4.Roger Leonard
5.Rocky Mosley
6.Carlos Maria del Valle Herrera
7.Walter Desiderio Gomez
8.Bushy Bester
9.Tyrone Rackley
10.Tadashi Mihara
Leonard beat him in 1981 and became lineal champ at Light middleweight.
Pacquiao's wins over top ten competition are as follows:
Sasakul
Ledwaba
Barrera
Morales
Barrera
Marquez
David Diaz
Ricky Hatton
Cotto
Clottey
Margarito nor DLH were in the top 10 when Pacquiao fought them, but I went ahead and included them anyway because Pacquiao fans will throw a hissy fit even though theyre not actually very good wins.
even with them, he has 12 wins over top competition. less than Leonard. I even gave Pacquiao a freebie by saying he has 13, just because people will annoyingly try to give credit for a nonelite win.
Leonard still has more wins over top competition.Comment
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There are a bunch of different ways to look at it, that is why everybody has a different opinion.
There are just so many variables that comparing fighters across eras, even current to a recent one really is impossible, at least to really agree.
Like many things in boxing it is all in the eye of the beholder and never cut and dry.Comment
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Yet you put the list up. And somehow you are credible? More. Than anyone. Apparently.I don't count EPSN as a legit ranking. They have Jake Lamotta in the Top 15 of all time and have the likes of Oscar ranked above Carlos Monzon. Which is an utter joke. Their list holds NO credibility.
If you can provide me a legit list that has Oscar in the Top 50, feel free in doing so.
And again, ESPN and Bert Sugar are NOT credible.
Hey, I just posted what was commented by the ringside announcers who called the Mugabi fight. The one right before his fight with SRL. It was a brutal fight.
Really? Really??? Hagler was shot yet Oscar wasn't? What?
Hagler wasn't shot....
Faded? Yes
Shot? No.
My point was you can't be *****ing and moaning about DLH being past his prime when it was widely acknowledged Hagler was past his. Specifically the comments were signs of *advanced ring wear and age*Many ringside observers, including analyst Gil Clancy, noticed that Hagler was showing signs of advanced ring wear and age. He was much slower of hand and foot and seemed much easier to hit. He had also completely morphed his ring style from a slick, quick-fisted, boxer/puncher to a strictly flat-footed, stalking slugger to compensate for his loss of speed and reflexes.
For all DLH fights, he was never in one that was a real slugfest that ends fighters. I mean like Meldrick Taylor vs. Chavez. By comparison, Hagler was in some of those kinds of fights.
No. He's not arguably in the same area as Sugar Ray Robinson who spent a lot of his career at middle weight and is the greatest middle weight of all time. That's undoubtedly more insane than saying DLH is an all time great and in the same area as some of these guys.Let's not talk like Leonard was at his best. Leonard was further in decline than Hagler coming off a retirement in a weight class he has never seen. Let's not forget Halger is argubally the greatest Middleweight ever.
True. But not all of his fights with Duran were Duran ranked #1. And not all his fights with Hearns had Hearns ranked #1.Erm, because Duran beat Leonard....For his Lineage.
Thus, was #1 at WW, when Leonard beat him in the rematch..
Oh, so Ring Magazine is acceptable.and Shane isn't Top 10 P4P now.
*Rolls Eyes*
Pongsaklek Wonjongkam, JMM, Tim Bradely (? yes, the headbutting champion of all), Giovani Segura. 1 loss to Floyd doesn't take him off that list. He was ranked #3 just before the Floyd fight. But I guess some lists are ok and some not.
He's top 10 P4P.
DLH was ranked top 10 P4P when Manny fought him. Now, my opinion, obviously that wasn't true. But Marvin Hagler was not top 5 P4P in 1987. He was declining rapidly (which is part of the reason he retired)And all 4 of those names would unquestionbly be Top 5 ranked P4P when he fought them.
Yeah, just keep bein crazy. It's ok.Benitez is argubally greater than all of those names. And is an ATG fighter.
You just ranked Benetiz over everyone whose fought from 1990 on. So yeah. I'm gonna say you suck.I'm not romanticizing over an era. Why is it every time I rank someone from another era over Pac I am 'romanticizing' over that era?
Didn't say he wasn't. If you actually read my entire comment, you'd see I voted for SRL on this thread. My entire point is that your point of view is very one sided and dismissive of the other. And not with concrete reasoning, with the reasoning of quicksand.Sugar Ray Leonard isn't one of them....Comment
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I'm not looking for the tiniest flaws. I'm simply saying not to ignore obvious ones.You can pretty much look at ANY BOXERS CAREER AND FIND A FLAW(s) if you search hard enough, no fighters career is FLAWLESS!
When you only fight 3 of the best 1X a piece it becomes less impressive.Quality is much more impressive then QUANTITY when it comes to RESUMES. Hagler fought the best during his ERA, it don't matter how LONG he fought, what is more important is that when he fought...HE FOUGHT THE BEST!
Sorry, but if you look at the division rankings it's not all that different from today's boxers. In which they must face some bums.Stuff like Boxrec has a lot of current boxing fans confused, they go back and look at records and names and just assume because they are not familiar or never heard of certain fighters...they must not be that good...that is the BIGGEST MISCONCEPTION when people look back and someones career.
The one consistent is that money fights bring the talent. And Manny has been at that level for 7 years now. If you look at Haglers career, he was #1 middleweight for years before he actually fought for the title. And yes, he fought a lot of bums during that time.
Duran was really his first "big" fight, and he only fought 5 times after that. In fact, when he fought Juan Roldan, Leonard noted how much slower he looked because he was ringside commenting at that fight. That was 3-4 years before Leonard fought him, he knew he was in decline.
Really? Andy Price was a legend? I'm going with no. If they were legends, they too would be in the IHOF.All people do is look for the names they heard of, then when they don't see the names they are familiar with they go to Boxing Forums and start labeling Boxing Legends "OVERRATED".
If you have seen MAB vs. Morales I, II, III. Both those guys are legends. The end.I think SOME Pacquiao fans just don't want it to be "CLEAR CUT" simply because THEY ARE FANS! But it is very clear cut and the ONLY reason why it is clear cut is because off those other LEGENDS that SSL had on his RESUME. It is not Manny fault at all that his ERA had GOOD FIGHTERS and HOF but NOT MANY LEGENDS
And my whole point is it's not clear cut. Geezus.Comment
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[QUOTE]Since when is being lineal champ a ranking? It is not. There are lots of bum lineal champs. There are now, there were then. It was the WBA Junior Middleweight.
In the divisions. I hate to disagree. But I'm fairly certain they would have been. (In fact, wasn't DLH ranked in the P4P in ring mag at the time?, could be mistaken) You didn't even have JMM on your list....are you smoking?Margarito nor DLH were in the top 10 when Pacquiao fought them
I'm sorry. Andy Price was not a top fighter. Larry Bonds wasn't. Kevin Howard wasn't. You're also conveniently ignoring that Manny fought some of those guys multiple times when they were highly ranked.Comment
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26% for Pacquiao
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