Why wasn't Kirkland given the same chance JMM got vs. Pac??

[Michael Hall]

Exactly, that's why he stopped it. You don't want to see a fighter get seriously hurt, Kirkland could not stop the right hand from landing. He was done.

So when JMM got floored for the third time in his first fight with Pac, what did JMM show you that told you he would be able to deal with Pac's left hand for the remainder of the fight?

[mikemurni]

Let's put it this way, once you get KD in any round 3 times, its up to the judgement of the referee to stop the fight. Its a risk when you get KD like that 3 times in a round especially in the case of Kirkland who was also wobbly at that point.

The ref could have also made that judgement with JMM in the first round of his fight against Pac. The difference is that JMM was in the main event, while Kirkland was the opening fight.

And no referee in their right mind would want to stop a fight in the first round of a main event when there is still a chance that the fighter can still get up and continue. Its not the same when you are just fighting in the undercard especially in the case of Kirkland-Ishida, when its not even the main undercard.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Let's look and see like grown adults instead of the children on here claiming to know everything and insulting people.



The first KD comes at 1:35, you can clearly see it was just a flash KD and Marquez calmly walks to the other corner, not wobbling or showing any evidence of being hurt. Even Merchant right after SPECIFICALLY says "Marquez does not appear to be hurt or dazed"

Second KD comes at 1:58 and even though Stewart keeps repeating "He's hurt, he's hurt" you can see Marquez calmly get up, his legs still under him and not showing any signs of being out and responding perfectly to what Joe Cortez is saying.

The third KD comes at 2:20 and this one he was definitely more stunned than the first two but he was CLEARLY hit while he was on the ground. He lays there, covers his eyes and waits for the count to recover and got up at 8 without wobbling, without his legs giving out from under him. He even comes back and lands shots vs Pac and ends the round.

Here's Kirkland:



First KD comes at :18 seconds, you can see Kirkland's legs go right out from under him and when he goes down, even Kellerman says "He is hurt!" He does recover well and is allowed to continue.

Second KD comes at 1:10 and this one is much worse, Kirkland is seriously hurt in this one as he just falls over. He needs the ropes to get up and you can see he has no movement in his legs and can't defend himself at this point.

The third KD comes at about 1:45 and even though he lands one good shot on Ishida, you can see he can't defend himself from the right hand and even Kellerman says the same exact thing. He goes down like a ton of bricks, straight on his back and even though he attempts to get up, his actions leading up to the third KD, he was seriously hurt and shaken.

[Danny Gunz]

Kirkland probably would have went on to keep getting knocked down. But with that said it really shouldnt have been stopped. He still had his senses with him every time he got up.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

So when JMM got floored for the third time in his first fight with Pac, what did JMM show you that told you he would be able to deal with Pac's left hand for the remainder of the fight?

That's not why I would have stopped kirklands fight though, if Kirkland would have gotten up the same way i just showed JMM to get up in the post above, I would have said it was a bad stoppage.

He was seriously hurt man, his legs weren't there. There is a difference in the TYPE of knock downs they were. You just can't classify all knock downs as being the same.

[Owlzfan84]

Kirkland was getting up and he got wrestled down. He deserved a chance or at least a count to see where he was. He was getting hit but it wasnt like he wasnt throwing back. He landed some shots as well. My opinion is he deserved another chance. Especially with his power and the fact that he was able to get up and get up pretty quickly and because he still clearly wanted to fight.

[*OG Wenger*]

I don't think there is such thing as a bad stoppage when a fighter has been dropped 3 times in the first round. Could it have gone on? Maybe but at the end of the day the refs job is to use his better judgement to protect the fighter and thats what he did. If you get dropped 3 times in a round its 50/50 the ref will stop it the 3rd time.

[jtiger777]

He never recovered from the first kd he looked terrible whats wrong with that guy?

[LA_2_Vegas]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE 10 COUNT????????

Where is the consistency??

You have Montiel on the ground conlvusing and twitching and given a 10 count and allowed to get up.

You gave the example of JMM-Pac.

This is somewhat similar to what I saw in the Daniel Jaobs-Pirog fight. Jacobs get cracked and put down to a count of 7-8 and seems to suddenly realize he is on canvas and attempts to hop up quickly like Montiel did, but Robert Byrd litterally pushes his chest down to hold him there - stopping the 10 count. They're arguing as it's called off.

All of these examples happened during the first 2 rounds, except for Pirog-Jaobs which wasn't exactly a war to that point.

This is not me criticizing particular referee's or ignoring the importance of the health of the boxers , just asking the question of why there seems to be such inconsistency with 10 counts?

[studentofthegam]

I finally got to see the Kirkland stoppage over the weekend and it was HORRIBLE.

Joe Cortez is still one of the worst refs I've ever seen.

There was no three knockdown rule and it was obvious Kirkland was ready and able to fight. He should have been given a chance.

I'll admit that Kirkland's defense is GOD AWFUL and he probably would have lost anyway, but the ref didnt give him a chance.

What if JMM werent given a chance after being down three times against Pacquiao???

Arturo Gatti has also been beaten to a pulp in the ring only to come back and win the fight by KO.

Kirkland was robbed of that opportunity and that is inexcusable. He was fighting a light punching foreigner. He should have been given the chance to continue instead of being forced back down to the canvas by Cortez's crotch.

Its a matter of opinion but It looked like he was done to me. If Cortez would have allowed him to be knocked unconcious he would have been scrutinized much worse. Seems he cant win for losing.