Why wasn't Kirkland given the same chance JMM got vs. Pac??

[Michael Hall]

JMM's legs were still there, that is the #1 thing you look at when assessing a hurt fighter. Kirkland's legs were gone, completely gone.

JMM"s nose was broken and that's why it was gushing blood, doesn't mean he was seriously hurt.

I don't think you understand the difference between being hurt and having your nose broken or being knocked down.

How can you say Kirkland's legs were gone when the ref never gave him a chance to stand up?

[RichardP]

All we can say is **** HAPPENS.

[S H A R K B O Y]

Everyone suspected Kirklands chin, even himself. He shouldn't have tried to rush everything anyway.

[mrainey]

I'm not a big Kirkland fan, but Cortez should have let him try to get up.

Joe is one of the most erratic and frustrating refs in the game.

[studentofthegam]

I'm not a big Kirkland fan, but Cortez should have let him try to get up.

Joe is one of the most erratic and frustrating refs in the game.

Those werent glancing flash KD's. They were three consecutive 1,2's on the button. Ive seen much worse stoppages than that. Cortez has a few questionables but that wasnt one of them.

[Michael Hall]

Let's look and see like grown adults instead of the children on here claiming to know everything and insulting people.



The first KD comes at 1:35, you can clearly see it was just a flash KD and Marquez calmly walks to the other corner, not wobbling or showing any evidence of being hurt. Even Merchant right after SPECIFICALLY says "Marquez does not appear to be hurt or dazed"

Second KD comes at 1:58 and even though Stewart keeps repeating "He's hurt, he's hurt" you can see Marquez calmly get up, his legs still under him and not showing any signs of being out and responding perfectly to what Joe Cortez is saying.

The third KD comes at 2:20 and this one he was definitely more stunned than the first two but he was CLEARLY hit while he was on the ground. He lays there, covers his eyes and waits for the count to recover and got up at 8 without wobbling, without his legs giving out from under him. He even comes back and lands shots vs Pac and ends the round.

Here's Kirkland:



First KD comes at :18 seconds, you can see Kirkland's legs go right out from under him and when he goes down, even Kellerman says "He is hurt!" He does recover well and is allowed to continue.

Second KD comes at 1:10 and this one is much worse, Kirkland is seriously hurt in this one as he just falls over. He needs the ropes to get up and you can see he has no movement in his legs and can't defend himself at this point.

The third KD comes at about 1:45 and even though he lands one good shot on Ishida, you can see he can't defend himself from the right hand and even Kellerman says the same exact thing. He goes down like a ton of bricks, straight on his back and even though he attempts to get up, his actions leading up to the third KD, he was seriously hurt and shaken.

First knockdown Marquez looks fine. I agree.

Second knockdown: Marquez is clearly stunned. He gets dropped to his back, gets up and slowly starts walking backwards. The ref never asked him anything (like he did with Kirkland). Marquez got dropped and never took his eyes off of Pacquiao. Cortez never made Marquez refocus his eyes on him (cortez). He just let Marquez go back out there (while backing up) and fight some more.

Contrast that with the second time Kirkland got dropped. Kirkland gets up, is not wobbly, and looks the ref dead in the eyes and says "I'm fine".

The third knockdown is the clearest proof that the fight should have been stopped.

Marquez is on his back with his gloves covering his face. That should have been an instant stoppage.

Again, contrast that with the third time Kirkland hits the canvas. Cortez jumps right on top of him and waves it off. We never got to see how hurt Kirkland may have been.

The thing about it is, Kirkland was being dropped by a feather fisted guy that was hitting him with light shots that he never saw coming. Marquez was catching flush shots from a known power puncher.

Kirkland's legs weren't gone; he was getting hit with shots he didn't see coming. There's not a human in the world that can stand up too well placed punches that they don't see coming. Just ask Paul Williams.

I just don't know how Cortez can rationalize this stoppage while not stopping Marquez-Pac... hence the reason I created this thread.

Terrible stoppage!!

[Michael Hall]

Kirkland probably would have went on to keep getting knocked down. But with that said it really shouldnt have been stopped. He still had his senses with him every time he got up.

Thank you.

That's all I'm trying to say.

[deuce_drop]

I thought the 3 kd rule was in effect, it was not, extremely poor ref job, ALTHOUGH it probably did save Kirkland further embarrassment.

[Michael Hall]

That's not why I would have stopped kirklands fight though, if Kirkland would have gotten up the same way i just showed JMM to get up in the post above, I would have said it was a bad stoppage.

He was seriously hurt man, his legs weren't there. There is a difference in the TYPE of knock downs they were. You just can't classify all knock downs as being the same.

What you're saying doesn't make sense.

And here's why: when JMM got up from the second KD, he slowly began walking backwards. When JMM got dropped the third time, he laid on his back and covered his face up.

When Kirkland got dropped the first two times, he got up and calmy looked into the refs eyes and told him he's okay.

How in the heck can you rationalize that JMM was in better physical/fighting condition than Kirkland was????

[deuce_drop]

How can you say Kirkland's legs were gone when the ref never gave him a chance to stand up?

He was already given two chances, his legs were rubber. With no 3 kd rule, he should've been given one more chance, not pinned down with a knee by a hack ref.