Why wasn't Kirkland given the same chance JMM got vs. Pac??

[studentofthegam]

So when JMM got floored for the third time in his first fight with Pac, what did JMM show you that told you he would be able to deal with Pac's left hand for the remainder of the fight?

You gotta remember that in a championship bout there is a silent rule that they get that extra chance. He's young and it wont crush him.

[Konstantin]

The first KD comes at 1:35, you can clearly see it was just a flash KD and Marquez calmly walks to the other corner, not wobbling or showing any evidence of being hurt. Even Merchant right after SPECIFICALLY says "Marquez does not appear to be hurt or dazed"

Second KD comes at 1:58 and even though Stewart keeps repeating "He's hurt, he's hurt" you can see Marquez calmly get up, his legs still under him and not showing any signs of being out and responding perfectly to what Joe Cortez is saying.

The third KD comes at 2:20 and this one he was definitely more stunned than the first two but he was CLEARLY hit while he was on the ground. He lays there, covers his eyes and waits for the count to recover and got up at 8 without wobbling, without his legs giving out from under him. He even comes back and lands shots vs Pac and ends the round.




First KD comes at :18 seconds, you can see Kirkland's legs go right out from under him and when he goes down, even Kellerman says "He is hurt!" He does recover well and is allowed to continue.

Second KD comes at 1:10 and this one is much worse, Kirkland is seriously hurt in this one as he just falls over. He needs the ropes to get up and you can see he has no movement in his legs and can't defend himself at this point.

The third KD comes at about 1:45 and even though he lands one good shot on Ishida, you can see he can't defend himself from the right hand and even Kellerman says the same exact thing. He goes down like a ton of bricks, straight on his back and even though he attempts to get up, his actions leading up to the third KD, he was seriously hurt and shaken.

I thought it was a fair stoppage before you posted this. Funnily enough after looking at those two videos side by side they are more or less identical. They both get knocked down quickly, get up quickly and are completely clear headed. The only difference is the way they fall. Kirkland's falling is a little more exaggerated.

As for Kirkland not being able to defend himself and being on shaky legs. Watch that Marquez round again. He is on shaky legs himself and gets nailed several times by left hands.

[Devils Advocate]

Kirkland was getting up and he got wrestled down. He deserved a chance or at least a count to see where he was. He was getting hit but it wasnt like he wasnt throwing back. He landed some shots as well. My opinion is he deserved another chance. Especially with his power and the fact that he was able to get up and get up pretty quickly and because he still clearly wanted to fight.

I wonder how serious Kirkland was taking his training. We all knew he had a couple of defensive flaws but his power is often times the difference maker, why I ask if he was taking is training seriously is because he fought like he had a great Friday night maybe out with some girls might have had a good time but lost his legs and mojo in the process. That can be quite dangerous for a guy whose defense is already suspect.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

I thought it was a fair stoppage before you posted this. Funnily enough after looking at those two videos side by side they are more or less identical. They both get knocked down quickly, get up quickly and are completely clear headed. The only difference is the way they fall. Kirkland's falling is a little more exaggerated.

As for Kirkland not being able to defend himself and being on shaky legs. Watch that Marquez round again. He is on shaky legs himself and gets nailed several times by left hands.

Then I don't know what you saw.

Clearly you can see Marquez CALMLY getting up, his legs still there, that was not the case with Kirkland.

Kirkland's legs were jut not under him, I don't know what else to tell you other than it's right there in the video.

If Kirkland would have gotten up the way Marquez did, and his legs would have reacted the same, I would agree.

I have nothing against Kirkland and for the record, if Cortez stopped the JMM v Pac fight, I wouldn't have been upset, I would have completely understood but I see where Cortez was coming from.

[Cuauhtémoc1520]

Its a matter of opinion but It looked like he was done to me. If Cortez would have allowed him to be knocked unconcious he would have been scrutinized much worse. Seems he cant win for losing.

100% right.................Cortez can't win in this place.

[mrainey]

In the corner, Kirkland asked Cortez why he stopped the fight, and Joe explained that he'd been knocked down three times. Kirkland's tone of voice indicated that he was surprised to hear that.

[The Gambler1981]

If a fighter goes down three times it is most likely going to get stopped, sometimes the ref may let it go on but that is very rare.

It ain't the refs fault he lost~ it is his own for falling down three times, I fail to see why this is an issue.

[Konstantin]

Then I don't know what you saw.

Clearly you can see Marquez CALMLY getting up, his legs still there, that was not the case with Kirkland.

Kirkland's legs were jut not under him, I don't know what else to tell you other than it's right there in the video.

If Kirkland would have gotten up the way Marquez did, and his legs would have reacted the same, I would agree.

I have nothing against Kirkland and for the record, if Cortez stopped the JMM v Pac fight, I wouldn't have been upset, I would have completely understood but I see where Cortez was coming from.

I see Kirkland get up just as calmly from the first knock down. Clearly level headed and continue fighting with his feet firmly planted on the ground.

Second KD. He is once again clear headed looking directly at the ref, acknowledging him, telling him he's ok. (Marquez did not look at the ref when he was knocked down, he was always looking at Pac.)

Detailed breakdown in between the 2nd-3rd knockdowns for Kirkland:

1:26 action resumes. 1:28 Kirk gets hit. He ties him up and moves away, not noticeably wobbly. 1:35 he nails Ishida with a couple shots and gets countered. He wobbles into ropes and evades every followup shot from him with good head movement. 1:48 Kirk jabs and gets hit with a counter right and he goes down.

Detailed breakdown in between the 2nd-3rd knockdowns for Marquez:

2:14 action resumes. 2:18 JMM is sent stumbling across the ring by a left. 2:20 Pacman lunges with a left and misses. 2:25 Pacman lands a left and down goes Marquez. Marquez doesn't actually go all the way down because his arm gets caught in a rope.

I see the video showing Marquez not having his feet under him and being unable to defend himself against the left hand.

[Michael Hall]

I made this same agrument to ny123 after the fight. It really wasnt that much different then Pac-JMM. Im just not for all the quick stoppage BS. Its not like he was getting drilled and it was brutal. He deserved another shot. He still may have gotten dropped a second later but he deserved that oppurtunity, e****ally as an unbeaten prospect. Thats why my favorite ref by far is Steve Smoger.

I mean not only did he stop it but he fell on Kirkland. He didnt even give him a chance to even get up. Its like as soon as he went down, it was over

Wow, someone with a working set of eyeballs and a brain to match!

I saw it the same way you did.

Steve Smoger is one of my faves as well. He's a man's man.

[Michael Hall]

That's the risk you take when you get knocked down 3 times in the first round.

True that.

I agree.

Kirkland deserved to lose. Props to his opponent.

However, I just wish Cortez would have let the fight play out and end NATURALLY versus making a premature call.

People act like Kirkland was stumbling all over the place. The guy got knocked down and attempted to get back up. We never got to see if he was wobbly or not because Cortez went MMA on him.