Muhammad Ali Vs Samuel Peter

[Elroy1]

Did you watch the first fight? It doesn't seem like it. Ali was tentative and then started taking over. He then got a substance in his eye (and lost that round) but took over the next round decisively. Maybe Liston hurt his shoulder. Maybe it was a no mas move on his part. But at the time of the stoppage it was clear that Ali was in charge.

You seem to think that size trumps skill. You also seem to think that body building helps in boxing. Lifting weights makes you look better but it doesn't necessarily make you a better boxer or pitcher or golfer.

Look at the skinny little f**k who took the golfing world by storm in the late 1990s. 10 years later Tiger Woods added 30 pounds to his frame but he wasn't hitting the ball any further than he did as a kid.

Ron Guidry (a Yankee pitcher of the 1980s) was a skinny guy but he threw as hard as Roger Clemens (a big guy). Bob Feller was a "little guy" and pitchers 70 yrs later don't throw harder than he did.

Bulking up does not make you faster (in fact it slows your punches, slows your agility (ability to slip punches), slows down your footwork and reduces your stamina). And bulking up doesn't automatically mean your punching power increases. (It does help you absorb more body shots.)

Take a look at what happened to Willard (who was KOed by Dempsey) or Carnera. By your standards - take a look at their physiques - both were in great shape (judging by a camera on stage) and both were big "modern" sized boxers. Size, after a point, doesn't mean much. Oh - and power comes more from speed (acceleration of the punch) and timing than it does from bulk (mass).

Increase the speed of your punch (assuming you're sitting on your weight) and your power goes up.

Excess weight reduces you're ability to move/react and get perfect timing.

This post is so ****** it is almost too ****** to counter!

If you had followed anything I've said to assume this, then you would understand that I do not actually subscribe to "bodybuilding" as being conducive to power. I certainly have never made such ****** suggestion that speed is increased by weightlifting either.

I only skimmed over your post but one last thing stood out at the end... A FASTER punch does not equal a harder punch. I notice you added sitting on it important, that was good. But a punch is a very complicated, actually one of the MOST complicated sporting moves to perform for maximum power. It is akin to hitting a baseball or a golf ball, you atleast have good knowledge there. But it was misdirected and DEFINETLEY directed at the wrong guy!

[Suckmedry]

It would resemble an actual "bee" trying to nail a grizzly bear, no punch threat whatsoever.

I just can't see any performance indicators in any of Ali's fights that strongly leads to the conclusion that he could score a victory.

Peter was not THAT slow or bad.

I feel slightly ******ed even trying to argue with you, but wtf from Peters career makes you think he would come close or beating Ali?

Do you not understand this is a fight between two big men, one who is crude, slow and heavy footed, and one who literally floats like a butterfly? All men of that size carry some pop behind their punch. Ali was no one punch killer but those stinging shots take their toll, peter would get boxed off his feet.

[M Bison]

Peter couldn't knock out a guy who started as a middleweight.

Ali couldn't even beat a LHW Henry Cooper who was well past his best years he couldn't beat him fairly without cheating

[SBleeder]

Ali couldn't even beat a LHW Henry Cooper who was well past his best years he couldn't beat him fairly without cheating

Yeah, that extra five seconds would have prevented Ali from turning Cooper's face into hamburger meat.

[Elroy1]

Ridiculous match up! Ali by tko after 6 or 7 rounds of Peter being hit at will and never landing a thing on Ali. This would be worse than Williams or the first Liston fight when Ali made Liston quit on his stoll with his mouth and eyes busted up and his phony shoulder injury as an excuse because he knew he was getting tko'd.

....peters in the 60's & 70"s is a marginal contender who could earn good money as a sparring partner then. Ali in the present era reigns champion easily there's no one with the skill set to challenge because no one now comes to fight with pressure and aggression. They all think they could box and how in the world would someone as slow as Wlad or Peter out box the fastest and smartest heavy of all time? That's right...they wouldn't!!!!
Ray.

The only thing ridiculous is that old bastards like you whom I think have more invested in your old school "favourites" than we know $$$$ really think that Peter would find much trouble annihilated those guys. I even just watched the Williams fight. Anybody reading this can tune into the very same fight. Yeah I know there's that combo where he dropped him but it only really looks good when sped up Let me tell you, Williams is a weakling and a beanstalk compared with Peter, not to mention he threw less punches than Peter has in any fight I can remember. Not to mention he'd suffered a ****ing gunshot! This was a weak opponent for Liston let alone Ali when he was older!

The Liston fight was an utter confusion for the judges. Ali was scared ****less, running the whole fight and Liston was so slow and plodding and unco he missed lots. It was confusing for the judges who to score the fight for.. The runner or the plodder? I don't doubt the shoulder injury was real and no doubt by the way your talking, you don't doubt it either! Ali was scared of Liston!

But it's Ali who would be the sparring partner. Many fighters bring pressure, Peter happens to be a prime example of one. Ali didn't really have any skills. He WAS hit at will as soon as Liston was in range as he would be against Peter who is faster than Liston (fact).

Problem is is that Peter, although not exactly fast, was FASTER than a lot of Ali's opponents who were much much lighter! And WK, he's about as fast as you can get for a 250lb man! Ali never fought once an opponent as fast and with the range of WK.

Terrell was tall like WK. But even at 250lbs, WK is objectively faster than 210lb Terrell (fact). Not even mentioning the skills and power advantage and chin (it's true!).

Smartest HW of all time? You think that running away for half a career and then taking punch after punch for the other half was smart?

That's what makes you ****** Ray! Yeah I seen your other post on history but your safe there. That's the real "fantasy" section. I guess you think Ali's smart for out-witting Foreman, probably the dumbest boxer in history (at that stage) ever. Well I would not be so quick to credit Ali for that. Ali WAS slightly ******ed, same as the fans.

It's actually moronic that you would consider a punch bag the champion in a hard punching era like the present. Your the epitome of the "Old Fool". You represent more than any other what is wrong with boxing.

[M Bison]

Yeah, that extra five seconds would have prevented Ali from turning Cooper's face into hamburger meat.

Wow Dundee pass the smelling salts otherwise Cooper will finish the job in the next round, oh thanks Dundee
Lmao its comparable to using steroids, Ali is a cheater.

[Elroy1]

I feel slightly ******ed even trying to argue with you, but wtf from Peters career makes you think he would come close or beating Ali?

Do you not understand this is a fight between two big men, one who is crude, slow and heavy footed, and one who literally floats like a butterfly? All men of that size carry some pop behind their punch. Ali was no one punch killer but those stinging shots take their toll, peter would get boxed off his feet.

You mistakenly assume Ali's "dancing" for effective footwork. Ali WAS the bigger man in those days. There are plenty of runners today as well but they don't make it (only really Haye, another story). Ali also outweighed 90% of his 60's opponents and outtalled virtually all of them.

At some point Ali had to get in range to hit Peter. Peter is faster than many of his opponents and hit harder than anybody Ali ever faced (probably). Problem was that this Ali was pasted even in the 60's and had a bad chin, he'd be dropped by a single shot!

Fast forward you do have a tougher Ali and a harder puncher, but what do you know, where is this footwork now?

This guy was pasted by one of the weakest champs (Frazier) in the last 40 years. Take Peter, put him in a concentration camp for a year or 2, give him osteoporosis and a fat gut, THERE'S ya Joe Frazier!

I think you get it. It's all there. Peter's fights actually all provide evidence, they just aren't in black and white like Ali's fights!

[Elroy1]

Yeah, that extra five seconds would have prevented Ali from turning Cooper's face into hamburger meat.

That's debatable. I have heard testimony that it was much longer than that.

Problem is that nobody was actually there I know of to ever come forward with eye witness evidence. Until that is settled, Cooper KOed Ali!

And I didn't even mention smelling salts.

Muhammad Ali I (60's) had a weak chin, fact!

[billeau2]

The only thing ridiculous is that old bastards like you whom I think have more invested in your old school "favourites" than we know $$$$ really think that Peter would find much trouble annihilated those guys. I even just watched the Williams fight. Anybody reading this can tune into the very same fight. Yeah I know there's that combo where he dropped him but it only really looks good when sped up Let me tell you, Williams is a weakling and a beanstalk compared with Peter, not to mention he threw less punches than Peter has in any fight I can remember. Not to mention he'd suffered a ****ing gunshot! This was a weak opponent for Liston let alone Ali when he was older!

The Liston fight was an utter confusion for the judges. Ali was scared ****less, running the whole fight and Liston was so slow and plodding and unco he missed lots. It was confusing for the judges who to score the fight for.. The runner or the plodder? I don't doubt the shoulder injury was real and no doubt by the way your talking, you don't doubt it either! Ali was scared of Liston!

But it's Ali who would be the sparring partner. Many fighters bring pressure, Peter happens to be a prime example of one. Ali didn't really have any skills. He WAS hit at will as soon as Liston was in range as he would be against Peter who is faster than Liston (fact).

Problem is is that Peter, although not exactly fast, was FASTER than a lot of Ali's opponents who were much much lighter! And WK, he's about as fast as you can get for a 250lb man! Ali never fought once an opponent as fast and with the range of WK.

Terrell was tall like WK. But even at 250lbs, WK is objectively faster than 210lb Terrell (fact). Not even mentioning the skills and power advantage and chin (it's true!).

Smartest HW of all time? You think that running away for half a career and then taking punch after punch for the other half was smart?

That's what makes you ****** Ray! Yeah I seen your other post on history but your safe there. That's the real "fantasy" section. I guess you think Ali's smart for out-witting Foreman, probably the dumbest boxer in history (at that stage) ever. Well I would not be so quick to credit Ali for that. Ali WAS slightly ******ed, same as the fans.

It's actually moronic that you would consider a punch bag the champion in a hard punching era like the present. Your the epitome of the "Old Fool". You represent more than any other what is wrong with boxing.

Thank god ****** isn't contagious over the internet....if it was I would stay the fvk away from you.

[Elroy1]

Thank god ****** isn't contagious over the internet....if it was I would stay the fvk away from you.

Luckily for all sports fans it's only confined to boxing and only to a fading portion of it..

That special kind of boxing fan I almost affectionately refer to as the OTNB... The "Old Time Nut Bag"