Who has a better defense? Locche or Mayweather?

[CarlosG815]

Right.

It's true. Oscar is a throwback to the greats who fought the "who's who." His entire career is loaded with the best fighters while AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME. Then you have people like Rosales (I think it was him who said this) that you could make a case for Vargas being shot. He had a tough fight against Trinidad but do I believe it took something out of him? No, as he would go on to have great success for years to come, and he looked good against Oscar. The truth is Vargas was at the top of his game and on steroids when he was knocked out by Oscar in the 11th round, so to say Vargas had slipped is not being said using logic but with negative emotion toward Oscar. The animosity Rosales has displayed toward Oscar in every post he has ever posted in pertaining to Oscar will prove this.

Oscar's resume, win or lose, is full of the best fighters at the top of their game at the time they fought, whereas Manny's resume is not like that. Look at the threads on this forum even from some of Mannys biggest fans (which I was a huge Pacquiao fan before the 2010 crap caused me to lose some respect for him) - Manny is getting the reputation of a cherry picker who is picking on has beens with a big name to pad his resume and make money. Nobody he has fought has had a legitimate chance of beating him and his fights are not competitive. Even guys who supported Manny up until 2 months ago have lost respect, as those same members who hated on Floyd for fighting Mosley now have to deal with the fact that their idol is taking him on after all the smack they talked about Floyd. He is becoming an embarrassment even to his fans. Many reporters are starting to turn on Manny and be vocal about the trend of his choice of opposition.

Oscar had his haters but I don't think anybody could make a case for Oscar ducking and dodging A game opponents in the prime of their careers.

[CarlosG815]

And don't say winky wright, because that fight would have been brutal. I'm happy it never happened.

[jrosales13]

Oscar was at his best at 147, as I don't believe he ever had good legs at 135. lol, you brought up Molina. There goes your credibility, as if you had any to begin with. His wins at 147 over Quartey, Carr, and I believe he beat Trinidad, all of which were great fights at 147.

So I lost my credibility by mentioning Oscar beat Molina? OK...Lets not talk about credibility when you're talking about Oscar being "very green" when he fought Whitaker.

Define great fights?

He only fought Quartey when he felt Quarty had lost a step. Quartey showed that he had slip somewhat in the Lopez fight then Oscar fought him. And, then Oscar had to get "cut"(I always ask did anybody ever see a cut?) and by the time the Quartey fight came off, Ike was coming off over a year of inactivity due to Oscar "cut"

And, it was not a great fight. I had 2 great rounds and the rest were just both posturing. And, if you want to say Oscar beat Tito, then I can say Quartey beat Oscar.

I have no gay loyalty to Oscar, I just call them like I see them and Oscar is one of the best of his era and unlike your hero, he always fought the toughest fight and went up against guys that the world wanted to see him fight, not the likes of battered Cotto's, Ricky Hatton, Clottey and Margarito (lol).

"My hero" also fought the toughest guys he fought Hopkins without a catch-weight, he fought Vargas at the time "your hero" was saying "I would never give him(Vargas) the payday.' And, then after "my hero" beat Vargas where he was never the same it's when "your hero" decided to jump on him and fight "my hero" left overs. He did that quite a bit actually Campas, Carr, Vargas, and Mayorga.

It's funny that you said Oscar went up against guys that the world wanted to see and mentioned Margarito. The world wanted to see him go against Margarito and what did Oscar do? Cherrypick a LW(has done this before BTW) and his plan was after the "Dream match" was to fight that same Hatton that you're trying to downplay.

Oscar did the same exact thing Floyd and Pac has done. And, that is cherry pick. The only difference is that Floyd and Pac are great so they dominate their cherry pick fights. However, that fraud who fooled a lot of people into thinking he was great wasn't as good as Floyd nor Pac to win his cherrypicked fight.

[jrosales13]

It's true. Oscar is a throwback to the greats who fought the "who's who." His entire career is loaded with the best fighters while AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME. Then you have people like Rosales (I think it was him who said this) that you could make a case for Vargas being shot. He had a tough fight against Trinidad but do I believe it took something out of him? No, as he would go on to have great success for years to come, and he looked good against Oscar. The truth is Vargas was at the top of his game and on steroids when he was knocked out by Oscar in the 11th round, so to say Vargas had slipped is not being said using logic but with negative emotion toward Oscar. The animosity Rosales has displayed toward Oscar in every post he has ever posted in pertaining to Oscar will prove this.

Oscar's resume, win or lose, is full of the best fighters at the top of their game at the time they fought, whereas Manny's resume is not like that. Look at the threads on this forum even from some of Mannys biggest fans (which I was a huge Pacquiao fan before the 2010 crap caused me to lose some respect for him) - Manny is getting the reputation of a cherry picker who is picking on has beens with a big name to pad his resume and make money. Nobody he has fought has had a legitimate chance of beating him and his fights are not competitive. Even guys who supported Manny up until 2 months ago have lost respect, as those same members who hated on Floyd for fighting Mosley now have to deal with the fact that their idol is taking him on after all the smack they talked about Floyd. He is becoming an embarrassment even to his fans. Many reporters are starting to turn on Manny and be vocal about the trend of his choice of opposition.

Oscar had his haters but I don't think anybody could make a case for Oscar ducking and dodging A game opponents in the prime of their careers.

What great success did Vargas have after Tito? Coming back from a knockdown to beat Rivera? Or his win against the great Shibata Flores? Or was it because he was competitive against a Mosley who has never looked good at 154?

Define great success for me?

[RubenSonny]

you contributed nothing to this thread you stup!d ugly ***. try again

He wasnt a fast guy either, his defense was NOT based around natural speedy reflexes

I always thought Locche possibly had some of the greatest reflexes of all time.

[CarlosG815]

What great success did Vargas have after Tito? Coming back from a knockdown to beat Rivera? Or his win against the great Shibata Flores? Or was it because he was competitive against a Mosley who has never looked good at 154?

Define great success for me?

So in your opinion Vargas was shot and done before his fight with Oscar?

[IronDanHamza]

It's true. Oscar is a throwback to the greats who fought the "who's who." His entire career is loaded with the best fighters while AT THE TOP OF THEIR GAME. Then you have people like Rosales (I think it was him who said this) that you could make a case for Vargas being shot. He had a tough fight against Trinidad but do I believe it took something out of him? No, as he would go on to have great success for years to come, and he looked good against Oscar. The truth is Vargas was at the top of his game and on steroids when he was knocked out by Oscar in the 11th round, so to say Vargas had slipped is not being said using logic but with negative emotion toward Oscar. The animosity Rosales has displayed toward Oscar in every post he has ever posted in pertaining to Oscar will prove this.

Oscar's resume, win or lose, is full of the best fighters at the top of their game at the time they fought, whereas Manny's resume is not like that. Look at the threads on this forum even from some of Mannys biggest fans (which I was a huge Pacquiao fan before the 2010 crap caused me to lose some respect for him) - Manny is getting the reputation of a cherry picker who is picking on has beens with a big name to pad his resume and make money. Nobody he has fought has had a legitimate chance of beating him and his fights are not competitive. Even guys who supported Manny up until 2 months ago have lost respect, as those same members who hated on Floyd for fighting Mosley now have to deal with the fact that their idol is taking him on after all the smack they talked about Floyd. He is becoming an embarrassment even to his fans. Many reporters are starting to turn on Manny and be vocal about the trend of his choice of opposition.

Oscar had his haters but I don't think anybody could make a case for Oscar ducking and dodging A game opponents in the prime of their careers.

I think what he's trying to say is if you say Cotto is done then the same case for Vargas can be made. Personally i think they are similar cases neither Vargas or Cotto were shot after there beatings but they certainly wern't the same IMO. However i give both fighters props for their wins over either fighter.

And your comment on Winky Wright. Winky priced himself out, Winky always priced himself out.

However Margarito, thats a fight Oscar wanted no part of.

[jrosales13]

So in your opinion Vargas was shot and done before his fight with Oscar?

I'm saying he was never the same after Tito and not on top of his game ala Cotto right?

[CarlosG815]

I think what he's trying to say is if you say Cotto is done then the same case for Vargas can be made. Personally i think they are similar cases neither Vargas or Cotto were shot after there beatings but they certainly wern't the same IMO. However i give both fighters props for their wins over either fighter.

And your comment on Winky Wright. Winky priced himself out, Winky always priced himself out.

However Margarito, thats a fight Oscar wanted no part of.

I happen to think Vargas looked as good as he ever did.... The fact is, he was just good enough to be talked about with the elites of his era, but he could never beat any of them, such is the case with Cotto... But if you watch Vargas against DLH, you will see the same fighter (even with steroids) that fought earlier in his career....

Now watch Cotto that fought Pacquiao. Watch the lack of crispness in his punches, total lack of technique, and how slow he is in getting his punches off and how lackluster his left hook to the body is that he kept leading off with against Pacquiao. He just had nothing in him.

Watch the Cotto fight against Yuri Foreman.. It's the same thing. It wasn't until Yuri had his ACL torn in two that Miguel was able to bully him around, and even then I believe Yuri was getting the better of the exchanges that took place in the middle of the ring.

Cotto has had nothing left for quite some time. I don't know if it came from the success, or if it was from the beating he took at the hands of Margarito, but he is shot and has been for some time, and was so in going into his fight with Pacquiao.

I don't put too much emphasis on age, but the fact is that Vargas was in the prime of his career and only 25 years old when he fought Oscar and he was juiced up to the hilt.

[jrosales13]

I happen to think Vargas looked as good as he ever did.... The fact is, he was just good enough to be talked about with the elites of his era, but he could never beat any of them, such is the case with Cotto... But if you watch Vargas against DLH, you will see the same fighter (even with steroids) that fought earlier in his career....

Now watch Cotto that fought Pacquiao. Watch the lack of crispness in his punches, total lack of technique, and how slow he is in getting his punches off and how lackluster his left hook to the body is that he kept leading off with against Pacquiao. He just had nothing in him.

Watch the Cotto fight against Yuri Foreman.. It's the same thing. It wasn't until Yuri had his ACL torn in two that Miguel was able to bully him around, and even then I believe Yuri was getting the better of the exchanges that took place in the middle of the ring.

Cotto has had nothing left for quite some time. I don't know if it came from the success, or if it was from the beating he took at the hands of Margarito, but he is shot and has been for some time, and was so in going into his fight with Pacquiao.

I don't put too much emphasis on age, but the fact is that Vargas was in the prime of his career and only 25 years old when he fought Oscar and he was juiced up to the hilt.

If you going to mention Vargas being juiced up then lets demand for Oscar to sign the waiver.

Vargas was never dropped before Tito then after Tito he gets dropped by a light punching Rivera. His chin was cracked. It happens

Cotto looked very good in the last couple rounds against Pac. He was actually competitive for the first 5 rounds(take away the knockdowns). Is after that when he looked somewhat faded. But, that could be due more to Pacquiao.

Cotto win over Foreman is better than any win Vargas got after Tito.

So for you to say that Vargas went on "to have great success for years to come" is asinine. But, whatever.

If you think Cotto was shot while Vargas at the top of his game so be it. It's just furthers my su****ion that you have no credibility.