Measuring Manny: Has he improved since 2008?

[TOBYLEE1]

This is easy to analyze. Marquez is a counterpuncher with a right hand. All others left hookers that come foward. Even when Cotto started to get on his back foot didn't make too easy for Pac. Pac right hook is a counter for the a left jab.

Pac balance has improved with his right hook, but his confidence on his abilities is the most improved asset

[blaze778]

its about the skill sets not size u idiot.

Well the thread is titled "Measuring Manny."

[BoxingTech718]

ya know, the more i watch fights, and the more i breakdown match-ups, i really begin to wonder how good these trainers really are? Think about it, we get hit by the glits and glamour of the lights and camera. But let's really analyze these guys. When most fighters go to the corner, their trainers/coaches advise them with loud, yelling, incoherent advise.

Noel Judah is a prime example. When Floyd made his adjustment, and Zab had no answers in the squared-circle, he returned to his corner. And round after round Noel Judah offered loud, incoherent rants, "ZAB! You gotta BOOM BOOM BOOM BOOM, HA! HA! HUHG! HA! Ya know what i mean?! You gotta get in there- BOOM BOOM BOOM! **while making punching movements in front of Zab as examples)). I was blown away by his lack of ability to analyze what adjustments Mayweather was making against his fighter (and son) and articulate counter measures to take against Mayweather. The more I took note of that, the more i began to study other trainers and I noticed the same thing. This all make me wonder, how good are many of these trainers? Honestly?

Emmanuel Steward is wonderful! he breaks down opponents so well, it's not even funny. We bow to your boxing knowledge Oh Emmanuel!

I do believe that Emmanuel Steward is a boxing genius when it comes to training fighters. He was able to take Klitscho and make his jab into the laser that it is today. Without that weapon we would have seen him KTFO badly already. With Cotto I think he got into some bad habits which cost him in the pac and cheatto fights. If Cotto listens to Steward he will be an improved Cotto and get a rematch with pac.

[SaiZelion]

I do believe that Emmanuel Steward is a boxing genius when it comes to training fighters. He was able to take Klitscho and make his jab into the laser that it is today. Without that weapon we would have seen him KTFO badly already. With Cotto I think he got into some bad habits which cost him in the pac and cheatto fights. If Cotto listens to Steward he will be an improved Cotto and get a rematch with pac.

Great example. This point to something we both have not talked about, the fighter themselves. As a trainer, I don't care if my fighter is blazing fast or heavy handed. Just give me a fighter WHO LISTENS to me.

Jermaine Taylor and Klitschko are prime examples. Emmanuel trained both fighters. Both fighters are very physically talented. One of them is still fighting while the other's career is finished. What's the difference between the two? One fighter listened and followed his trainer's instructions, the other- Jermaine Tayler, didn't.

During the last 2 fights Tayler had with Steward as the trainer, I can vividly remember Emmanuel getting to the point of YELLING at Taylor because he was not doing what Steward told him to. Then he get KO'd. Klitschko (i may have misspelled that lol) listens!

Give me a fighter who listens, and follows directions. So many fighters, fall back on their bad habits and we see where that has gotten them.

[BoxingTech718]

Great example. This point to something we both have not talked about, the fighter themselves. As a trainer, I don't care if my fighter is blazing fast or heavy handed. Just give me a fighter WHO LISTENS to me.

Jermaine Taylor and Klitschko are prime examples. Emmanuel trained both fighters. Both fighters are very physically talented. One of them is still fighting while the other's career is finished. What's the difference between the two? One fighter listened and followed his trainer's instructions, the other- Jermaine Tayler, didn't.

During the last 2 fights Tayler had with Steward as the trainer, I can vividly remember Emmanuel getting to the point of YELLING at Taylor because he was not doing what Steward told him to. Then he get KO'd. Klitschko (i may have misspelled that lol) listens!



Give me a fighter who listens, and follows directions. So many fighters, fall back on their bad habits and we see where that has gotten them.

Kind of like what happened to Mike Tyson when he got new people around him and started to listen to Don King. When he was with his original team he was unbeatable. Klitschko would've just been some tall Russian dude without Steward. Taylor was due a KO though for some questionable gift decisions he got. But if he listened to Steward who knows he might have been an ATG. Mayweather is so good because he practically is his own trainer. He doesn't need anybody to make adjustments for him because he does it himself mid fight, at anytime in the ring. I do think that if pac has a chance to beat him it would have to be in the first 4 rounds before Mayweather figures him out and Manny is fresh. Because once Money figures his man out that's it. He won't ever get hit cleanly the rest of the fight. I'd love to see Pac/PBF finally get made though.

[Pullcounter]

this is a ****** argument.

pac doesn't even fight the same way he fought jmm anymore. to use those fights as a basis to judge all his other fights is dumb.

jmm used to be a defensive fighter, he is no longer. jmm does not have great head movement. what jmm does is block punches with his gloves, then counterpunches. jmm moving backwards against pac ended up with him on the canvas. pac is too fast with his feet. jmm decided at that moment that he had to stand his ground and punch with pac. this was possible because pac was a one-handed fighter. all jmm had to look out for was the left cross.

even when pac developed a better right hook, he didn't throw it a lot against marquez. he barely threw it a lot against morales.

when pac moved up to 135 lbs, that's when pac realized that he'd be fighting bigger opponents and he couldn't just rely on his left cross. that's when pac's skills got better.

this is the truth, so pay attention: once upon a time, the only way to beat pac was to back him up (see pac/morales I). jmm stood his ground against pac, but never beat pac. he lost 2x. cotto is not flatfooted like others guys that pac fought. 145 lbs was fine because cotto was 146 lbs against clottey. the reason why cotto got beat up was because he doesn't have the stamina or conditioning like jmm, and because his technique is sloppy compared to jmm. also, for those who think the slick boxing style is pac's achilles hill is wrong. everyone that has run from pac has lost. EVERYONE! these fights in general are boring and forgetable. said fighters may make it to the 12th round, but lose in landslides because of inactivity.

stinking out the joint isn't the way to beat pac.

[SaiZelion]

First of all, it's not an argument.

[The Decision]

Bump. Great in depth breakdowns.

[Carpe Diem]

There's no doubt that Marquez exposed Pacquiao technically in this fight. But likewise Pacquiao also expose Marquez's chin. He's been going down a lot. Even with Katsidis, he floored Marquez with a left hook.

So yes, technically, Marquez is really awesome. He reduced Pacquiao in this fight into a mere "chaser" moving backward and forward to be "chased" and countering Pacquiao effectively.

But Marquez also showed that when he pressed for an attack, that's when Pacquiao caught him with a left hook.

But with Pacquiao's multi-dimensional attacks nowadays in the form of his two fists now, Pacquiao would "wait" for Marquez to attack again and be the counter-puncher instead. And it won't be pretty.


To reduce or minimalize Pacquiao into a mere "combination puncher" is not seeing that Pacquiao has gotten technical also courtesy of Freddie Roach's regiments and the physical regiments of Ariza.

Gosh, I would love for Pacquiao to fight Marquez for the third.

Totally Agree, fabie.

[Carpe Diem]

Very educational video for the fans who don't get to see the small things that make a fight.

I've been saying this for months, it doesn't matter if the fight is at 147 for Marquez. Marquez would still give Pacquiao problems and he knows this. In the end styles make fights, and Marquez has that style that will ALWAYS give Pacquiao problems. Yet people don't want to accept it. They think Marquez would get KOed in 3. It's a fantasy that they love living because their hero to them is unbeatable.

Also, I've said that Floyd-Manny wouldn't be a competitive fight. It won't be.

True. I noticed few things myself, and then re-watched those fights again just to see that's he's on point. He breakdown everything except when he called his recent opponents bums, that's totally untrue. However, those guys all stood in too close tight range with Manny, and he landed most of his combos easily on them because of it.